Hey there, it is your choppo. This is Amber. I am here with Will and very special guest,

Catherine Liu. Catherine has just written a book called Virtue Hortars, the case against the

professional managerial class. It is a short, quick mean read and we're going to do something

a little bit different. We're going to do a little shopping, do little shopping for the PMC.

So Catherine, thanks very much for being on. Well, thank you. Would you like to give us just a

brief rundown of what the professional managerial class is and why and how they are able to hoard

something as a femoral as a virtue. Okay, so the professional managerial class really comes out of

John and Barbara Aeronryx idea in 1977 that the American left was increasingly dominated by

these like college educated people who held certain like counter cultural values but mostly

thought the working class of America was really retard at tear, like literally retarded and backwards.

So this class didn't used to always have this kind of contempt for the working class. If you look

at a history of professionals, doctors, managers, white color workers, social workers, they were

terrified of the working class. Like at the end of the 19th century when there were all of this

working class unrest and they did want to come in and sort of provide solutions. They were

much smaller class than they were much less powerful, huge working class, small white color,

salaried employees. And then its numbers exploded as capitalism became more complicated and there

was more like division labor. And you know today it really dominates what we call content production,

content consumption, the creative industries, what the air and I call the liberal industries.

And I feel like their values are kind of like the air we breathe. And it's poisoning us. So I wrote

this very polemical thing that was not going to be like part of the I didn't want to add to the

discourse of the PMC which is very much like I told you so. Or you know Mark says this,

and Aaron I say this and this happened here. My premise in writing this was like all of you

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