All right, joining me now for a bonus chop-up interview is David Sarota of the lever.

David, I wanted to have you on to obviously talk about the disastrous train derailments

in an ongoing airborne toxic event in East Palace, Nino, Ohio.

But it just so as that happens, there was another train derailment yesterday in Houston

also of a train transporting hazardous chemicals.

So, I guess like, now I'm having you on to talk about the ongoing state of train derailments in America.

Going back to the East Palace, Nino, Ohio one, because you know, like it seems that it really does seem to be dropped out of the news or at least not receiving the covers that this warrants.

David, what do we know so far about what happened and the scale of this disaster?

And I'm thinking particularly to like the watershed of the entire Ohio Valley.

Well, what we know is that chemicals, various chemicals that are toxic leaked into various cricks and streams around this watershed.

It's still unclear what the implications of that will be in terms of whether those chemicals will wash out into the larger areas of the air.

Or, larger Ohio river and into the Mississippi river, or whether they will kind of get permanently into the groundwater.

We know that there are some areas that are under, you know, there have been some boil water advisories and the like.

But I think a lot is unknown.

Certainly what we know is that vinyl chloride, which is one of the main chemicals at the center of this, is a highly toxic chemical that can cause, it's a carcinogen, a very kind of a very serious carcinogen.

And we also know there have been widespread reports of animals and the like getting sick in the area.

But I think we don't really know. And I think the EPA, we do know that the EPA has told the company Norfolk Southern that it should prepare to face some kind of liability for this disaster.

But of course, I think that goes back to a question of well, how did this disaster, what were the conditions created for a disaster like this to happen?

I think Norfolk Southern is a rail giant that's used to not really having to be held liable in any kind of material way, in any kind of serious way when these things happen, serious enough to deter it from engaging in the kinds of decisions, business decisions that it made, whether it's understaffing the railway, whether it's not investing in the kinds of breaking systems that experts have said are necessary.

That they're essentially banking on the idea that they can blow up a town, a pollute a whole area and not really have to have to pay very much and they know that they rely on the idea that their shareholders are going to reward them for making the kinds of cuts that they've made.

And you brought up Norfolk Southern and in addition to the, as you said, as yet, unknown scale of this disaster, this is doubly in theory, because Norfolk Southern is one of the main rail companies that the Biden administration broke the rail workers strike for just the other month.

And I would encourage people to go back and listen to the interview I did just a little while ago with Ross Grooters and Devon Mance of real worker, railroad workers United and BMW ED teamsters because like, you know, they were talking about like this is an issue about safety not just for the people who work on railroads, but for, you know, like basically any town that doesn't want several thousand tons of hydrogen chloride dumped into their water supply.

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