Joining us now live from our New York studios is John Simon, film critic for the National Review and drama critic for New York Magazine.

From our Chicago bureau, Gene Siskel, film critic for the Chicago Tribune and co-host of the syndicated television series at the movies.

And Roger Ebert, co-host of At the Movies and film critic for the Chicago Sun Times.

Mr. Simon, you described the Empire Strikes Back, the second in this trilogy as malodorous awful,

and I understand you're also well able to keep your enthusiasm in check for the third in the trilogy.

Why so unkind? I feel they're so bad because they're completely dehuman. you're also well able to keep your enthusiasm in check for the third in the trilogy.

Why so unkind?

I feel they're so bad because they're completely dehumanizing.

Obviously, let's face it, they are for children

or for childish adults, they're not for adult mentalities.

They are for children, and they're brutalizing children,

they're stultifying children,

they're making children

are dumber than they need to be.

These are the sorts of movies that Disney people should be making and the kinds of movies

that Disney made 20, 30 years ago.

I think all movies are special effects.

Movies are not real.

They're two-dimensional.

A film goes through the camera, the projector throws the light on the screen, and that makes

a special effect.

It's a dream, it's an imagination. As to whether this film is good or not, it excited me. It made me laugh. It made me thrilled. And that's what a movie like this is for. I also enjoy films by Ingmar Bergman and people like that. I share that taste with Mr. Simon. But I try, I think in my own movie-going taste,

...