I think you cite in some of your work something that you call the behavioral gap, which, you know,

talks about the underperformance of people who have bad behavior when it comes to investing.

And it's fascinating to me, you know, to know a little bit more about these sort of behavioral

biases and understand them

better. So just out of curiosity, I mean, tell us about so this massive challenge we as from

a sort of like big picture point of view that we as investors have and how we can kind of

overcome the overall problem of investing and, you know, with the bad behavior we, we often see.

Yeah. So, you know, going kind of 30,000 feet here, I like to say that, you know, God or nature could not have designed a worse investor than you or I.

Like every, you know, every single way that we have evolved, we have evolved for immediacy,

we've evolved for certainty, we've evolved for action, and success in financial markets

takes dealing with uncertainty, it takes restraint, it takes patience, it takes not listening to your gut. You know, our gut was our original risk tolerance system, sort of our, you know, our gauge of how we ought or ought not to behave. And, you know, I've made the point, I hope, rather convincingly in my, in my latest book, that listening to your gut is a profoundly bad idea so i think

the first thing that we need is just a recognition and awareness of just how ill-equipped we are for

this because i think a lot of people who have had success in other avenues right in other places in

life they go well i've been a successful business person,

or I'm a successful parent, or, you know, whatever it is. I go, I'm competent. I'm a good,

I'm a good person. They think that those skills will generalize into the world of investing.

And I refer to it as Wall Street bizarro world and, know in the laws of wealth because the rules of good

investing are almost 180 degrees of the rules of the rest of the life so in a very real sense

what got you there in other places in your life won't get you to where you want to go in the

world of investing so sort of recognition about that and humility around it, and I'll still, I'll paraphrase

Jim O'Shaughnessy from what works on Wall Street fame, you know, poorly paraphrase.

He says something in what works on Wall Street to the effect of, you know, the first thing you've

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