Just talking about leverage and volatility and things like that, I mean, given the changes

we've seen over the years and also where the CTA industry and the trend following industry

came from in terms of return expectations, volatility, you know, expectations, so on and so forth.

In your opinion, what is a good range for a trend following system today in terms of,

you know, return expectations and volatility?

What would you say is a number where people should certainly be very comfortable investing

in something like that, given what we just talked about?

I mean, in terms of Vol, you see CTA is starting at like 5 Vol, which is not where I'd like to be but like very very low yeah

and you see them go up to like 30 vol I mean there are some very successful 30 vol funds out there

and and you know I think they're great it's just I, if you go higher than 30, if you go 40, 50,

vol, then at that point you're in an area where there's just a lot of risk, a lot of risk of

just suffering from one bad event that takes you out of the game and then your chips are gone and you can no

longer play so that would be too risky for me but um say you know anything between for me between

15 and 25 kind of like that checks the box um That's where I'm comfortable with things.

Yeah.

What about you, Jerry?

Well, once again, I think 10 to 15.

Our research, if it's pure trend following,

it has a tendency to have a drawdown about twice as large

as the return.

So the perurbial 8% return, 16% drawdown or something like probably going to be a little

bit bigger, that's, you know, that's 5% shoot for 5% above risk-free.

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