Bits + Bips: Why TradFi Knows It Needs Crypto More Than Ever to Stay Relevant - Ep. 973

Unchained

Laura Shin

News, Tech News, Business News

4.6 • 1.3K Ratings

🗓️ 9 December 2025

⏱️ 60 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Thank you to our sponsors! Uniswap Mantle Hosts Ram Ahluwalia, Austin Campbell, and Chris Perkins dig into why interest rates may not fall as quickly as markets hope, why oil demand could surprise to the upside, and how retail keeps buying every dip—even while consumer confidence hits new lows. The trio also breaks down the growing collision between TradFi and crypto: whether banks can compete with blockchain-native distribution, how BlackRock’s staked ETH ETF filing could reshape the market, and how yields on Ethereum and Solana represent a brand-new financial primitive. Plus, they examine Ripple’s controversial raise, Citadel’s push to regulate DeFi, and why major incumbents are now in a frantic race to choose their crypto “dance partners.” Hosts: Ram Ahluwalia, CFA, CEO and Founder of Lumida Austin Campbell, NYU Stern professor and founder and managing partner of Zero Knowledge Consulting Christopher Perkins, Managing Partner and President of CoinFund Links: Unchained: BlackRock Files S-1 for Staked ETH ETF Berachain Kept Secret a $25 Million Refund Right to a Brevan Howard Fund CoinDesk: Citadel Challenges DeFi Framework in Letter to SEC, Sparking Industry Outrage Bloomberg: Wall Street Hedged Big Crypto Bet in $500 Million Ripple Deal (XRP) Bitcoin Options Show Traders Hunkering Down for Crypto Winter Timestamps: 👏 0:00 Intro 📉 2:06 Whether there’s any real path to lower rates 🛢️ 5:07 Why Ram is bullish on oil demand 🤖 6:12 The biggest constraint on AI adoption 🇯🇵 7:02 Is Japan raising rates still a “nothing burger”? 🛍️ 9:57 How retail keeps buying every dip 🏦 12:21 Can crypto beat banks’ entrenched distribution? 📉 18:00 Why Ram thinks you should “sell the Bitcoin rallies” 📼 20:13 Are we reliving the 1970s? ⛓️ 24:47 How BlackRock’s staked ETH ETF filing could reshape the market ⚖️ 30:28 How staking yields will trade against Fed short rates 💼 38:59 Ripple’s controversial “raise” — and the unusual protections granted to Citadel and Fortress 🛡️ 47:52 How Citadel is fighting DeFi to defend its moat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Every account is going to become a wallet. Every wallet is going to become an account, right? And
0:05.6	distribution will remain king. It's been king to date and it's going to remain king. How long is it
0:11.6	going to be before we start trading Ethereum rates against sulfur or against short-term interest
0:16.6	rates? You know, why not? You know, that's called the basis trade, basis swap.
0:21.1	For the losers, the retail investors of the token. Somehow this money has got to come from
0:25.9	somewhere. Who's on the better side of that transaction though? Where are you looking
0:30.3	like on this deal? Are you looking at Fortress Citadel and Galaxy and saying, I want to be
0:34.9	on their side of the table? Or are you looking at ripple and say, damn, they could a great deal?
0:40.2	Welcome to bits and dips, where we explore how crypto and macro collide one basis point
0:45.2	at a time.
0:45.7	I'm your host, Austin Campbell, high scholar of zero knowledge group.
0:49.3	But I'm here with my two usual co-conspirators, Chris Perkins, the Golden Hand of Coin Fund,
0:56.8	and Ram Al-Alawalia, Maester of Wealth at Lumida.
1:00.5	We're going to discuss today the latest stories of the worlds of crypto and macro.
1:04.5	I'm going to try to get Chris angry about market structure,
1:07.7	and we're going to see how that goes.
1:09.5	But please remember that nothing we say
1:11.5	is investment advice. Check Unchained Crypto.com bits and bips for more disclosures. And in general,
1:18.5	don't take advice from podcasters alone. Before we get started though, here's a quick word from
1:24.1	sponsors who make this show possible. Mantell is launching the Global Hackathon 2025 to accelerate the future of real-world assets.
1:34.0	With a $150,000 prize pool, backing from a $4 billion treasury, and direct access to ByBits 7 million-plus users,
1:43.6	this is the ultimate ecosystem for builders.
	...

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