Hidden, a true crime podcast, a forensic psychologist and a journalist explore the hidden motives behind

unthinkable crimes while examining our deepest fears along the way.

This is Lauren Matthias.

And I'm Dr. John Matthias. That chilling audio is Muhammad Ata.

Muhammad Ata is the terrorist who flew flight 11 into the north tower of the World Trade Center on September 11th, 2001.

Muhammad Ata was a part of Al-Qaeda and largely responsible for the plan and execution to bring down the World Trade Centers.

You might be wondering why we're going to lead with Muhammad Ata today.

We still need to talk about Spencer, right? Were we talking about Spencer in the last episode, part one, who's dating or thought he was dating Katie Perry?

Okay, I've been talking to this woman. Okay, the last six years, I've been loved with her. Wow, she's awesome. It's Katie Perry.

Yes, we were, but we really need to up the ante this week and we need to move from the idea of love as a panacea to love as something potentially lethal.

So in other words, Spencer is important in helping us understand how an normal person can view love through a very distorted lens and become wrapped up in an abstraction or an ideal of love or anything for that matter that then takes over one's life and leads to potentially inexplicable behaviors.

And not only that is willing to pursue that ideal without any evidence for those who didn't listen to part one, which if you haven't listened to episode 13, the last episode, we recommend you do that first.

But if you're going to continue Spencer, referring to Spencer, who's in love with Katie Perry, we're talking about an episode of the MTV show Catfish Spencer from Knoxville, Tennessee believed that he was dating Katie Perry. Take a listen.

All right, Spencer, level with us for a second on the scale of one to 10 10 being I fully believe I'm in a virtual relationship with Katie Perry and one being this could be true, but probably isn't, but I thought it would be a good episode of catfish. Where, where do you fall on that scale?

When we think about Spencer and Laurie from last week, the analogy of chasing this ideal love for Spencer, that was falling in love with Katie Perry.

Katie's full life is just huge hard. Have you guys said that you love each other many times? For Laurie, that was reuniting with Jesus Christ in the afterlife.

I had the love of Jesus Christ who washed over me. There is nothing like that on this earth. It is life changing and eternity altering.

I should mention by the way that the reason Laurie's belief about Jesus is so extreme is not because she sees Jesus as a loving figure.

Figure with whom she develops a close relationship. Rather, the belief is extreme because Laurie claims to have actually met and developed a relationship with Jesus in person in the flesh.

I started saying that I am the personal witness of the resurrected Jesus Christ and is advocate and I am his friend.

The Jesus was a witness at her and Chad's marriage in the temple and that additionally she had encountered Jesus in the flesh.

We don't know much about her encounters with Jesus just that she claims to have had them and will not deny them.

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