Hello, hidden gems. I am so excited to be here today with a very special person. And I know we're not, you know, crimes are not exciting, but I am so excited to be with a friend of mine and someone that I have been wanting to introduce to the hidden true crime community because she is so special.

I got to know Vicki Holbin who is Tammy Debel's aunt during the trial. That was like going to war together almost everyone that sat in there every day. And we all got to know one another and Vicki was no exception to that.

I am so honored, Vicki, that you would be here today. I know that you soon have an interview with court TV and you said, you know, I'm going to jump on with hidden true crime first. Thank you. And, you know, truly, thank you. We know how private Tammy's family has been the past three years.

Respectfully so, understandably so. And for you to trust our community and me enough to come on here and share a few things means so much to us and especially life.

We don't always do live interviews. And I asked Vicki, would you be willing? And you said, yes, it's just adds to a bit more of the intimate conversation. And, and so thank you. You're among friends. I guess I want you to know right now.

Yeah, I feel good. I feel comfortable.

Good. Good to explain how Vicki is. Well, why don't you explain how are you Tammy Debel's aunt first off?

So my sister, my oldest sister, Fellas is Tammy's mom. Yeah. And so that's so fellas. And then I have another sister Barbara and then me and I have a little brother Sam. And that's our family.

Okay. And you are all I want to point this out to because we all know about grandma Lucille on this channel.

Who are grandma Lucille's daughter, Fellas and you are both grandma Lucille's daughter Lucille is who Chad used to shame Tammy and playing his video games. He claimed that Lucille visited him from beyond the grave and swore at Tammy.

Do you want to clear that up too? Do you want to be Lucille's actual voice?

So that's, that's a sensitive issue with me for sure. Because I don't, when she was alive, I didn't allow people to treat her a certain way and then to find out that he was using her as his conduit to manipulate people, especially Tammy because she was just such a sweet heart and to pull that and to pull my mom into it.

And just everybody, you know, that we're, we're very, not all of us are religious people, but we're very spiritual people. And so to bring her in and to use her in that way.

Yeah. That just not buying and I, and I, when he, when they first told me about it, the first thing I thought is, well, why would she, if she was going to come and talk to somebody, why would it be Chad?

I mean, there's not even a reason to come to Chad and I can see she would have got, you know, had a message for Fellas because she was sick and going through a lot of things.

But no, I never bought that. I never believed it. I don't, you know, I don't necessarily just that whole scenario just stunk to me.

And I'm not feeling good about it. Still not happy with it. And to be honest, I want that chapter taken out of his book and that maybe my next project.

I support you in that project. No one should be, should not be using your mother. Right. Yeah.

Especially, you know, looking back now, what's happened, obviously, everybody knows that it just, it was a story he made up.

And so that makes it really, you know, even worse because now we're dealing with that only a shadow book that's just full of just a bunch of stuff that he made up.

But it's a negative, you know, for Tammy, because he was using it against her.

Yes.

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