The first cut on this record has been cross-format focused for Airplay success.

The men beat on their drums. I'm going to be...

. Hello and welcome to a special episode of Politics Theory, Other.

This year PTO has been very pleased to be a media partner of the World Transform Festival,

which has been running a fantastic programme of events all through September on imagining radical change and planning how to make it

happen. My guests for today's special episode are to be to Chao and David Brophy. We talked about

how the left should relate to China, how to characterize China's economy and mode of governance,

and what to make of the emerging

Cold War between China and the United States. If you enjoy today's episode, please do consider

supporting the World Transformed. You can help to sustain their work both at next year's festival

and throughout the year at theworldtransform.org forward slash support.

Tabita Chow is the director of Justice is Global, a special project of people's action to create

a more just and sustainable global economy and defeat right-wing nationalism.

My second guest is David Brophy.

David is senior lecturer in modern Chinese history at the University of Sydney and is the author

of Uyghur Nation, Reform and Revolution on the Russia-China frontier.

His new book is China Panic, Australia's alternative to paranoia and pandering.

So we're going to be talking about how people on the left ought to think about China,

ruled, of course, by the Chinese Communist Party and how we should relate to the emerging Cold War

between China and the United States and to an extent US allies as well.

And I thought perhaps a good place to begin would be to consider exactly what kind of society

China is. So on the left, even today,

...