This is CBSI in the World, I'm John Batch with John McDermott of the Economist magazine,

who ventured into the Great Lakes region of the Democratic Republic of Congo that borders

in on Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi.

This is an area that we first came across in the genocide of the late 20th century in Rwanda,

but the region remains as confused and violent and out of reach of order as possible.

There is even a UN operation operating at some point in this Great Lakes region, but

we need now to ask questions.

John is very forgiving of me because I take my notes and I get confused about sponsors.

The gang is called M23, it's revived.

And John, the puzzle here is, does it have state sponsorship in some fashion?

Do these gangs seek state sponsorship?

And what state?

Yes, so we talked about ADF, the chocolate smuggling, do you have this?

And we talked about Kadeko, who are the local groups allegedly committing genocide.

Now let's talk about M23.

M23 is slightly different from the other 119 groups.

It has a clear state sponsor according to the United Nations.

That state sponsor is Rwanda.

Now Rwanda is a relatively small country compared with DRC, but it has long meddled in its giant

neighbor.

And that is partly because following the genocide in Rwanda in 1994, many of the perpetrators

fled to the larger country and the government in Rwanda, out in secure without having to,

...