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The Ezra Klein Show

Best Of: The Most Amazing — and Dangerous — Technology in the World

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.611K Ratings

🗓️ 26 December 2023

⏱️ 58 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

“We rarely think about chips, yet they’ve created the modern world,” writes the historian Chris Miller. He’s not exaggerating. Semiconductors power everything from our phones and computers to cars, planes, advanced military equipment, and A.I. systems. Chips are the foundation of modern economic prosperity, military strength and geopolitical power. This conversation with Chris Miller, author of “Chip War: The Fight for the World’s Most Critical Technology,” was recorded back in April. But we wanted to re-air it, because what Miller lays out in that book, and in this conversation, is essential to understanding where we are in 2023, and the faultlines that will shape the world ahead. Because semiconductors have one of the most concentrated supply chains of any technology today. One Taiwanese company, TSMC, produces around 90 percent of the most advanced chips. A single Dutch firm, ASML, produces all of the world’s EUV lithography machines, which are essential to produce leading-edge chips. The entire industry is built like this. That doesn’t just make the chip supply chain vulnerable to external shocks; it also makes it easily weaponizable by the powers that control it. In 2022, the Biden administration banned exports of advanced chips — and the equipment needed to produce those chips — to China, and then further tightened those rules this October. In August 2022, President Biden signed into law the bipartisan CHIPS and Science Act, which includes a $52 billion investment to on-shore U.S. chip manufacturing. China has invested tens of billions of dollars over the past decade to build a domestic semiconductor industry of its own. Chips have become to the geopolitics of the 21st century what oil was to the geopolitics of the 20th. In this conversation, Miller talks me through what semiconductors are, why they matter and how they are shaping everything from U.S.-China relations and the Russia-Ukraine war to the Biden policy agenda and the future of A.I. Mentioned: “The Problem With Everything-Bagel Liberalism” by Ezra Klein Book Recommendations:The World For Sale by Javier Blas and Jack Farchy Nexus by Jonathan Reed Winkler Prestige, Manipulation and Coercion by Joseph Torigian Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. “The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Annie Galvin, Emefa Agawu, Jeff Geld, Rogé Karma and Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Jeff Geld. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Pat McCusker and Kristina Samulewski.

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hey, it is Ezra. We are on our holiday break, but I wanted to re-air one of my favorite

0:05.3

episodes of the year and one that I think gets at a number of the most important stories.

0:10.6

China, AI, a lot of global strategic competition, which is this discussion of

0:17.4

semiconductors, which have become one of the fundamental technologies of

0:20.7

the 21st century, the locus of a lot of international maneuvering, military

0:27.3

competition, and also just a remarkable thing to contemplate that humans actually create and build. But because it is such a remarkable thing to create

0:35.8

and build, it's very easy for it to all fall apart. Enjoy.

0:39.0

I'm Ezer Klein, this is the Ezer Klein show. So you may have noticed at the beginning of the year the two themes are really

1:05.6

dominating the show China and AI and obviously that's not an accident I'm not going to

1:11.9

try to rank order what matters most in the world, but these are two

1:16.0

good contenders for the top five at least. When I imagine the history books getting written of our

1:21.1

era, it is very hard for me not to imagine these

1:24.6

being dominant themes. And these stories connect. They connect in obvious ways.

1:28.6

There's a geopolitics of who controls AI, a race between the US and China to get the strongest and earliest

1:34.8

AI capabilities. But they also connect in another more tangible way. They are both stories driven

1:41.6

by semiconductors and who controls them.

1:44.0

In the same way that you couldn't understand geopolitics in the 20th century

1:48.0

without understanding oil and other forms of energy

1:51.0

where it was and who had it and who needed it and what they would do to get it,

1:56.0

you can't understand the major stories of the 21st century without understanding semiconductors.

2:02.0

Whoever controls semiconductors controls the future.

2:05.0

And it turns out for reasons I didn't really understand until I read Chris Miller's book,

...

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