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I'm your host, Greg Sargent. You've probably heard that President Trump and the European Union have reached a big trade deal.

This is being widely portrayed as a win for Trump and a big humiliation for the EU.

But we think the claim that Trump won is just bizarre.

First, the details of the deal themselves cast some doubt on this idea. And second, it's not at all

clear what we gain as a country from this deal, particularly in the long run. Surely the phrase

Trump won has to mean more than Trump gets to claim a victory in the long run. Surely the phrase Trump won has to mean more than Trump gets to

claim a victory and the media plays along, right? Well, maybe not, it turns out. Economist Paul

Krugman has a great new piece on his substack casting a lot of skepticism on the deal, so he invited

him on to walk us through all of it.

Paul, thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me on. So the basics of this deal are that the U.S.

is imposing a 15% tariff on most imports from Europe, with some exceptions. There's some talk about

the EU agreeing to buy $750 billion in American energy spread out

over three years and an increase of $600 billion in investment in the U.S.

Paul, to start with, can you walk us through the tariff piece of the deal?

What does it amount to and what does it mean?

Well, it means that anybody bringing European goods into the United States is going to pay a tax equal to 15% of the value.

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