Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.6 • 11K Ratings

🗓️ 9 May 2025

⏱️ 67 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

A good rule of thumb is that whatever Margaret Atwood is worried about now, the rest of us will likely be worried about a decade from now. The rise of authoritarianism. A backlash against women’s social progress. Climate change leading to social unrest. Advertising permeating more and more of our lives. We originally released this episode back in March 2022. But just like Atwood’s work, it somehow only got more relevant with time. Atwood is the author of at least 17 novels, including the classic “The Handmaid’s Tale,” as well as 20 books of poetry and nine collections of short fiction. When we spoke, she’d just published an essay collection, “Burning Questions.” And she has a new book coming out this fall, “Book of Lives: A Memoir of Sorts.” Mentioned: Art & Energy by Barry Lord Book recommendations: War by Margaret MacMillan Biased by Jennifer L. Eberhardt Secrets of the Sprakkar by Eliza Reid Charlotte’s Web by E. B. White Lord of the Rings by J. R. R. Tolkien Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rogé Karma. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Special thanks to Kristina Samulewski, Coral Ann Howells and Brooks Bouson. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Kristin Lin, Jack McCordick and Aman Sahota. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Transcript

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0:00.0	The
0:07.0	The Today we're rearing an episode from the archive.
0:34.6	My interview with the author, The Legend, Margaret Atwood.
0:37.7	We first taped this episode back in February 2022, and I wasn't sure we'd ever really get to air it.
0:43.6	Because after we taped it, Russia invaded Ukraine, and we held it, and we held it, and we held it,
0:48.5	and I was worried it would feel too out of date given how much it happened in the world.
0:52.6	But somehow it didn't age at all.
0:56.6	And three years later, that's still true. This episode in weird ways feels more relevant today
1:00.9	than it does when we taped it. And I think that's one of Atwood's great gifts, this eerie prescience,
1:06.6	which is one reason her work has proven so long lived. When we spoke, she just published an essay collection, Burning Questions.
1:13.1	And she has a new book coming out in the fall, Book of Lives, a memoir of sorts.
1:29.3	Margaret Atwood. welcome to the show.
1:31.2	Happy to be here.
1:33.8	So let's begin with this.
1:37.9	Why do human beings think in stories?
1:44.7	Ah, well, people have had a lot of theories about that.
1:51.5	So let's say that once we had a language that included a past and a present and a future,
1:59.9	once we could think about what had happened and transfer information to people about what might therefore happen,
2:02.0	we were going to be telling stories.
2:08.3	So I think the stories, if you go way back, the stories that start being told are partly about how to do stuff, like how to hunt the gazelle, and precautions that you might take around
2:16.2	that. So I think stories were originally, or the reason they persisted,
2:22.7	because of course there must have been a positive for stories,
	...

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