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I'm John that's with James Scott. His new book is Black Snow. Curtis LeMay, the

fire bombing of Tokyo in the road to the atomic bomb. The fire bombing of

Tokyo in March is unique in human history. The atomic bomb used over

Hiroshima and Nagasaki unique in human history. What after the war happens is we

know the Cold War and Curtis LeMay rises in ranking because his younger

man is 38-39 at the end of the war. Rise is through the 1950s. He becomes, I

don't know James, I didn't write this down. Is he an early commander of SAC

strategic air commander? Is he the first? Yeah, and under an under leMay, I mean, you see

strategic air man really become a much greater organization. He moves

it to Nebraska. He brings his war-winning team of guys over from World War

2 and really gives it the gravitas and the in what I said, he has a lot of

credit for the success of strategic air command. Right. The big Boeing bombers, the B36,

the B47, the B52. These are LeMay's concepts and the end of the world from

LeMay's point of view. He rises to be chief of staff of the Air Force. I remember a

picture during the Cuban Missile Crisis of John Kennedy in his rocking chair and

his his truncheves the staff before him and there's the fat one, the chubby one,

sitting there staring back at Kennedy. He didn't get along with McNamara who

had been his subordinate. Why not? Yeah, you know, I mean, in part, I mean, quite

...