This is a bess, I on the world. Here's John Bachelor. I welcome the author Isaac Stone Fish, the founder CEO of Strategy Risk, but the book tells the story of Isaac's life since he was 17 years old.

America, second, how America's elites are making China stronger.

This is a journey through the conversation, the relationship, the entanglement of American VIPs, political, corporate,

cultural, since the contact between the Nixon administration and the Maoist regime of

1971 and 1972. In this conversation however we will cover many decades where it is surprising how American

opinion of China continued to evolve so that today we can't actually say that it's fixed. It keeps moving.

Isaac, congratulations and good evening. We begin with a conversation you very carefully explicate in your book between an unlikely China hand, Michael Eisner, then head of the Disney Corporation. Worldwide, a major piece of American

culture. He's having a conversation with a man named jou in 1998

the premier of China at the time under Jang

the general secretary of the Chinese Communist Party.

The conversation turns on a movie made by Martin's Corseti, the super director,

the pinnacle of Hollywood class. The movie is entitled Kunden, as I understand it, because I've never seen

it and now I know why. I have the music. It's about Tibet. What is the conversation to achieve? What does Michael Eisner hope to present

to the premiere of China that will make the situation for Disney and perhaps all of Hollywood better in China.

Good evening.

Beijing had long been searching for a strategy to push back against Hollywood portrayals that it found critical.

And in 1997, when Hollywood Studios released seven years in Tibet, Red Corner and Kundun, three films that were not to Beijing's liking.

They came up with a strategy that was in many ways brilliant, where they would freeze out major studios, but give

them the opportunity to repent, to apologize, to work themselves back into Beijing's graces and it created a cycle that we're still

dealing with today.

So this meeting October 1998, Premier Jurongji gets a visit from Michael Eisner and it's such a brilliant portrayal of psychological

manipulation. Eisner shows up, he's one of the most powerful men in the world, certainly

...