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This is fresh air. I'm Tanya Mosley. Have more babies or civilization dies. That's the rallying cry

behind a once fringe ideology that has made its way into the mainstream. Pro-Natalism has been in the news lately, with Trump policies underway to increase birth rates

by giving away a $5,000 baby bonus for parents and a National Medal of Motherhood for moms who have six or more children.

Pronatalists warn of an apocalyptic future that if birth rates in the U.S.

keep falling, we might be headed towards economic collapse, even extinction. They're pushing

ideas like genetic engineering, limiting access to contraceptives, and the Great Replacement

conspiracy theory, which believes that there is a plot to replace white populations with

non-white immigrants. One of the more well-known faces of the movement is Elon Musk, who reportedly

has at least 14 biological children with several different women, and is called the world's

population decline the greatest threat to humanity. But critics argue that this movement isn't

solely about increasing birth rates. It's about who gets to reproduce, under what terms, and at what

cost. They argue that this movement ignores the skyrocketing price of child care in our country,

our broken parental leave systems, and a woman's autonomy over her own body.

Well, today we're joined by two people whose work explores this movement and the motivations behind

it. Dr. Karen Guzzo is a sociologist and fertility expert, serving as the director of the

Carolina Population Center and a professor of sociology at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

And Lisa Hagan is a reporter for NPR who has been covering the pro-Natal movement and attended last month's second annual Natal Khan conference in Austin.

Lisa Hagan and Karen Guzzo, welcome to fresh air.

Thanks for having me. Happy to be here.

Well, I want to start with you, Lisa, and I want you to take us inside of this conference that you attended in Austin. First off, kind of set the scene for us. How big was it? And how would you

describe this overarching message you heard this year? Well, there were about

...