Hi, everyone. Welcome to the ancient warfare podcast. Today is a small group. We've got the

M&Ms I've decided to call us because it's me, Murray Dam. I'm the assistant editor of the magazine.

And with me is Mark McCaffrey and Mike Cole. And we're going to be talking today about Mike's new book

out from Osprey, the Bronze Lye, which I'm just going to read the title, is shattering the myth of Spartan

warrior supremacy. So, welcome Mike and Mark. So Mike, why did you write this book?

I will answer that with the big news of the day. So the big news of the day is Mike Cernovich, who is a very well-known right-wing,

hard right-wing agitator in the United States. I would say that he's probably about as famous

as Steve Bannon here, attacked the book just today on Twitter, saying that I was triggered

by the macho Ness of the right to write this book.

And of course, this is the best advertising I could hope for, right?

You know, it's this sort of, he has, I think, almost a million followers on Twitter.

But whatever your politics are, I think that his reaction really speaks to my reasoning to write the book.

I think all of us grew up with this notion that the Spartans were history's greatest warriors.

I know that I, in the police and in the military, that was certainly an unquestioned fact that was always part of the culture in which I was trained and raised. And you don't

question it. And as I became interested in ancient warfare and history, of course, you start, you know,

questioning any narrative that says that any particular group of warriors is better than any other,

because you realize throughout the history of warfare that while there are certainly, there's

certainly cratorianism, there are certainly elites that human beings are human beings,

and there's always exceptions. And also my lived experience working with special operations units

in Iraq. I've worked with SEALs. I've worked with CAG operators. And while they are certainly

impressive people and they have incredible training and great heart and great endurance,

they're also human beings and they make mistakes and

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