Today's episode is an encore presentation of a conversation I had almost four years ago with Arnie Duncan.

I think you'll agree after listening to this episode that Arnie is a very special person,

an almost impossible mix of passion, selflessness, intelligence, and common sense.

My guest today, Arnie Duncan, has played professional basketball, ran the Chicago Public Schools

for over seven years, and was a U.S. Secretary of Education under Barack Obama.

I suspect he'd be surprised to hear, though, where you'll find him these days. He's on the streets

of Chicago running an organization called CRED that's giving young men who everyone else has

given up on the chance to build meaningful lives.

Welcome to people I mostly admire with Steve Levitt.

I've known Arnie and admired him for 20 years now.

We first met under difficult circumstances

when I discovered there was widespread teacher cheating in the Chicago public schools

where Arnie was in charge. More recently, the last three years, totally by chance,

Arnie's been my next door neighbor. So compared to my typical interview, I have a much better

sense where things might have. But I do think Arney is in for some surprises because

I have a couple stories about him that I've never told before, and I can't wait to hear his

reactions. So you were Secretary of Education under Barack Obama, and after you left that job, you wrote a

memoir entitled How School's Work. And the first line of that book is education runs on lies.

And I cannot imagine a Secretary of Education other than you ever saying something like that

publicly. What did you mean by that? Well, I always try and

listen to what people say, Steve, but I always watch what they do. And when there's a disconnect

between what I hear and what I see, what I witness, that's disconcerting. We all say we value

...