Today we have a special bonus episode with Annie Duke, one of the best poker players in the world,

bestselling author and somebody I love to talk to.

She's got really unique perspective on when to fold your cards, sell your shares and dump your husband.

Annie, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you. I want to just clarify. I would not say I'm one of the best

poker players in the world anymore. I did retire in 2012. That's all good. Now, you wrote a book

called quit. Why is it so hard for people to quit oh gosh you know

it's i think that the issue with quitting is that there's just a lot of cognitive biases that line up and result in this failure to stop things. So it's hard to

pinpoint one thing, right? So we know that we have this kind of cultural bias against quitting,

where we, in English, we have like lots of aphorisms like quiters never win and winners never

quit. If at first you don't succeed, try, try again, which obviously is encouraging, not quitting.

So when we look at a lot of the way that we think about quitting from a cultural standpoint,

we think that quitters are losers or weak-willed or lack character.

So that's kind of like on the cultural side.

But then there's a lot of cognitive biases that we know about sort of individually, things like sunk cost bias and downment effect, which we can go into a whole bunch of things like that, where when you actually look across those biases, they all

result in a failure to stop things.

So I think it's very multi-pronged, which I think is part of what makes it such a hard

problem to address.

Well, let's touch on some of these things.

So some costs, what does that mean? Why is it so difficult to sell the losers?

Yeah. So when we're trying to make a decision about whether to continue something, we take into

account what we've already spent. In other words, costs that we've already sunk into the project,

and that isn't just money. It can be time and

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