Ancient Wisdom, Modern World: Bret Speaks with Jonathan Pageau
DarkHorse Podcast
Bret Weinstein & Heather Heying
4.6 • 5.3K Ratings
🗓️ 11 April 2022
⏱️ 172 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Bret speaks with Jonathan Pageau a symbolic thinker, YouTuber, and carver of orthodox icons.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtCTSf3UwRU14nYWr_xm-dQ
https://thesymbolicworld.com/
http://www.pageaucarvings.com/
https://twitter.com/PageauJonathan
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(00:00) Introduction
(02:47) Bret on religions being “Literally false, metaphorically true” NOT “a mind virus”
(05:35) Jon’s definition of religion
(07:57) Bret – all scientists have faith, i.e. base assumptions, axioms
(11:15) Jon’s definition of faith, as levels of understanding
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(15:45) Bret’s article of faith in evolution
(17:56) Jon’s refinement: religion is the “patterning” of being
(20:07) Emergence is the jump between levels
(21:45) Jon’s emergence
(23:34) Adaptive evolution and group selection
(26:45) Why does cooperation exist?
(28:05) Survivability of individual or group or lineage
(32:05) Google Vs Catholicism
(33:26) Point of attention
(35:55) Evolution predicts the behavior of religions
(38:46) Richard Dawkins’ memes
(42:35) Self sacrifice
(45:56) Confessions in a congregation
(49:30) Jon on importance of self sacrifice
(53:44) Rapist gene
(59:24) Geneva Convention
(01:00:39) Flip the table on the genes
(01:01:49) Purpose of organisms
(01:03:13) Consciousness and purpose
(01:05:16) Purpose
(01:09:15) One homogenous religion
(01:13:55) Centralized digital identity and mark of the beast
(01:19:59) Genes are self replicating patterns
(01:23:19) Bret’s “obsession” with genes
(01:25:09) Starting from experience, not genes
(01:31:06) Consciousness is recognizing patterns
(01:33:35) Consciousness is good
(01:39:36) Technological systems are driving us into madness
(01:42:59) We need to upgrade our consciousness
(01:45:44) Wokeism and COVID measures
(01:48:49) Damned if we do…
(01:53:59) Religion has predicted this
(01:56:39) Gain of function research and fission power
(02:01:06) Aiming for a higher good
(02:02:33) The atheist’s advantage and heaven
(02:07:13) Descendants 10,000 years from now
(02:11:14) Building of an arc, remnants, and end of civilization
(02:18:56) Update religious texts?
(02:20:39) Tools and religion
(02:24:39) Is lineage the wrong level of abstraction?
(02:29:43) Follow-through tennis analogy
(02:35:57) Cynicism around religion
(02:40:23) Consciousness comes down on existence and forms identities
(02:44:17) Tetrapods and speciation
(02:48:40) Identity and purpose
(02:50:33) Wrap up
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| 0:00.0 | I see work as a desire to create these types of desire to create a kind of structure which |
| 0:08.4 | will supposedly bind us together. |
| 0:11.0 | I see a lot of the COVID measures as a desire to do that as well. |
| 0:17.0 | I see things of people trying to do that, but because they are not grounded in the ancient |
| 0:24.3 | stories, they don't understand, they don't have a kind of mythical underpinning that has |
| 0:31.2 | been developed from the millennia and millennia, then they are creating monsters, they are Frankenstein |
| 0:36.6 | creations. |
| 0:38.8 | We are in total agreement about that. |
| 0:43.6 | So what I believe is that I believe that, let's say for me, let's say being the best Christian |
| 0:51.3 | I can be and living with my family and my neighbors and the people around me in the best |
| 0:56.8 | way, that's the first best thing I can do. |
| 1:05.5 | Hey folks, welcome to the Dark Horse Podcast. |
| 1:08.0 | I have the distinct honor and pleasure of sitting today with Jonathan Pazzo, who is an artist |
| 1:12.4 | specializing in Orthodox Christian art. |
| 1:16.3 | He is also maybe more importantly to us a deep philosophical scholar on religious questions |
| 1:24.2 | and the interface between religious thought and scientific and philosophical thought. |
| 1:31.0 | Welcome Jonathan. |
| 1:32.0 | It's great to talk to you finally after these two years where we had that first conversation |
| 1:36.3 | it's good to be back in the seat. |
| 1:38.5 | Now wait a second, two years. |
| 1:41.2 | I would have said based on just sort of a loose sense of how long it feels I would have |
| 1:45.4 | said more like 17 years. |
... |
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