Hello and welcome to the History Extra Podcast from BBC History magazine,

Britain's best-selling history magazine. I'm Ellie Korthorn. Today's interview is with Daniel Lee, a historian based at Queen Mary University of London, who is also one of BBC Radio 3's New Generation

thinkers. Daniel is the author of a new book, The SS Officers' Armed Chair in search of a hidden life,

which explores how the chance discovery of a stash of documents hidden within a piece of furniture

led him to uncovering the life of SS officer Robert Grie Singer. He spoke to BBC History magazine

editor Rob Attar.

Daniel, first of all, I wonder if we could talk about a chance discovery that set you off on this journey.

Absolutely. So thank you, thank you for having me on. I was, I had just finished my PhD in

England and I'd moved to Italy to Florence to do research at the European

University and I was really new to the city I didn't know too many people and after a few weeks I had

a few colleagues and who I'd met over for drinks at my place. It just so happened

that somebody who I didn't really know that well came and she just she was Dutch, she was beginning a PhD in law.

And she just came up to me and she said, oh, you're a historian of the Second World War, I hear.

Something really strange just happened to my mom.

And I just sort of looked at her and because you know when you're a historian of the Second World War people come up to you quite often and they say oh, you know I had a grandfather in the resistance or an aunt who is deported.

Nobody ever comes up to you and says something just happened.

So that immediately was a bit curious for me.

Anyway, and she just there and then told me

how her mother had in Amsterdam had taken this old armchair to be re-upholstered.

And when she returned to collect it a few days later, the guy who was doing the repair work was visibly cross with her and he sort of looked to her and he said, well, what is this? I don't do work for Nazis or their families and she was completely like stunned thinking what are you talking about and he just presented her with this with this bundle of papers all belonging to one man and everything was sort of

stamped with a Nazi swastika all over it. So she was you know know, she was just looking at these papers. She had

absolutely no idea who this man was, Robert Griesinger. She had bought the chair.

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