An author special with Fatima Bhutto on radicalism & what the West doesn’t understand about ISIS

The High Low

Society & Culture

4.8 • 9.6K Ratings

🗓️ 11 March 2019

⏱️ 77 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

*** PLEASE NOTE: This episode was recorded several days before it was announced that Shamima Begum's baby had died, which is why it is not discussed in this episode ***

This is one of the most important - and certainly prescient - author specials we’ve ever had. The journalist and author Fatima Bhutto (the niece and granddaughter of two Pakistani Prime Ministers and the daughter of a political exile) joins us to discuss her new novel, The Runaways, about the radicalisation of 3 teenagers. As the Shamima Begum - and now Hoda Muthana - citizenship furore gains momentum, we discuss what lures teenagers to the Islamic State, what the West doesn’t understand about radicalisation and the problem with pitting the East, and West against one another. As Fatima says, “who decided that freedom is a Western value? Or that tolerance is a Western value? Why can’t it be an Eastern value, too?”

The Runaways, by Fatima Bhutto https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/308/308064/the-runaways/9780241346990.html

Shamima Begum’s image problem, by Caitlin Moran for The Times https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/caitlin-moran-isis-brides-image-problem-6njvqhlxx

Rukmini Callimachi’s tweet series on Hoda Muthana https://mobile.twitter.com/rcallimachi/status/1098315438478540801?lang=en

Meatmarket, by Juno Dawson (out May 2019) https://www.whsmith.co.uk/products/meat-market/9781786540386

Fleabag Series 2, on BBC iPlayer now

Documentary about The Ponds https://www.thepondsfilm.com/about

Whatever Happened To Rachel - One From The Vaults https://m.soundcloud.com/onefromthevaultspodcast/oftv-1-whatever-happened-to-rachel-1

Three Identical Strangers https://www.channel4.com/programmes/three-identical-strangers/episode-guide/

The Marianne Faithfull story https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00030w3

Jim Nicholson remembered on Fresh Air https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/fresh-air/id214089682?mt=2&i=1000430902937

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Transcript

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0:00.0	A note to our listeners since the recording of this episode,
0:03.5	Shemima Begum's baby has tragically died.
0:06.5	This is why it isn't discussed in the following conversation.
0:25.8	Welcome to episode 89 of the Highloh.
0:28.3	The weekly current affairs and pop culture podcast
0:31.2	brought to you by journalist Dolly Alderton and Pandora Sykes.
0:34.6	Increasingly I love the way you say pop culture.
0:38.2	Thank you to everyone who came to our live record at Pandora,
0:41.8	the place not the person in partnership with Overcome
0:44.8	to support a very in-cancelled awareness month.
0:47.0	It was such a jolly crowd, wasn't it?
0:49.0	You're already enjoying, I can tell, but my computer's off-sick.
0:52.3	Oh, I'm loving it.
0:53.7	I can see you right, I can look right in your eyes.
0:56.2	I normally have a gigantic
0:58.0	possibility to think I love most of the world,
0:59.5	a gigantic iMac computer, and it has gone to hospital.
1:03.9	And now that I'm thinking about it,
1:05.5	because I sit across you from a desk,
1:07.2	it is like I've gone into that West or something,
1:10.2	and I've asked for a very cool laptop in front of me.
1:14.7	We are recording this a week early,
	...

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