meta_pixel
Tapesearch Logo
Log in
Throughline

All Wars Are Fought Twice

Throughline

NPR

Society & Culture, History, Documentary

4.7 β€’ 15K Ratings

πŸ—“οΈ 24 March 2022

⏱️ 48 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

"All wars are fought twice, the first time on the battlefield, the second time in memory," writes Pulitzer Prize-winning author Viet Thanh Nguyen. This week on Throughline, we want to pause the news cycle to think about not just how war is experienced or consumed, but how it's remembered. A refugee from the Vietnam War, Nguyen calls himself a scholar of memory β€” someone who studies how we remember events of the past, both as people and as nations. As the world watches the war in Ukraine β€” and with the U.S. departure from Afghanistan still fresh β€” we speak with Nguyen about national memory, selective forgetting, and the refugee stories that might ultimately help us move forward.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

I used to think it was my memory, you know, some things you forget, other things you never do, but it's not.

0:12.0

Places, places are still there. If a house burns down, it's gone.

0:18.0

But the place, the picture of it stays. And not just in my memory, but out there in the world.

0:26.0

What I remember is a picture of floating around out there outside my head. I mean, even if I don't think it, even if I die,

0:34.0

the picture of what I did or knew or saw is still out there. Tony Morrison, 11.

0:42.0

My own memories began very concretely in a refugee camp, a few weeks after the fall of Saigon.

0:58.0

We were actually boat lifted out of Saigon, and then airlifted from Guam to Pennsylvania, and ended up, you know, in a military base,

1:10.0

for Indian town gap in Harrisburg. And that's where my memories begin.

1:20.0

Vietnam War, boat lifted out of Vietnam, then airlifted to a new life in the United States.

1:30.0

The war fundamentally defined his life, even though his memories of it are hazy.

1:36.0

Before the end of the war, all I remember, because I was four years old, are just these fragmentary images, which I don't even know, what they really happened.

1:46.0

For example, being on a boat and seeing sailors shooting at a smaller boat approaching us.

1:52.0

My brother, who was seven years old, has never happened.

1:56.0

So I have to trust that his memory is right, and my memory is wrong.

2:00.0

He has to trust it, even though what his brother says contradicts Fiat's own memories. And that tension has animated his writing.

2:08.0

I am a professor, a scholar, and a writer of fiction and nonfiction. Probably best known for my novel, The Simplifizer, which won the Pulitzer Prize for fiction in 2016,

2:18.0

as well as its sequel, The Committed, Collection of Short Stories called The Refugees, and a nonfiction book called Nothing Ever Dies, Vietnam in the Memory of War.

2:26.0

Viet also calls himself a scholar of memory, someone who studies how we remember events of the past, both as people and as nations, and how those memories affect how we face the future.

2:38.0

And no narratives are more contested than those of war.

2:42.0

Millions are doing all they can do, and heading for the nearest border. And so for several days now, a growing wave of Ukrainian refugees has fanned out across Europe.

2:54.0

Right now, the world is watching the war in Ukraine. In just one month, Russia has destroyed major cities. Many communications are gone. And more than 3 million refugees have fled the country. Many of them children.

3:08.0

As if war in Ukraine, missile attacks, jet fighters screaming overhead and tanks bullying their way through suburban streets, wasn't already terrifying enough.

...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from NPR, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of NPR and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.

Copyright Β© Tapesearch 2025.