Hi and welcome to Cyber Reasons Malicious Life. I'm Ren Levy. This is the third and final part of our mini series on Albert Gonzalez, the hacker who, while working as an informant and doubled agent for the secret service,

was hacking into the networks of some of the largest retail chains in the U.S.

stealing literally hundreds of millions of credit and debit cards. What would it take for you to do really bad things to steal from others?

What would it take for you to do really bad things?

To steal from others?, cheat on your spouse, lie and deceive people who trust you.

In 2010, a reporter for the New York Times visited the Wyatt Detention Center in Central Falls, Rhode Island.

He sat down.

Across from him was a 28-year-old, a bit pale, bloodshot eyes behind wire-frame glasses.

His baggy-hockey jump suit hid just how thin he'd gotten since his days as a secret service informant.

The reporter started his recorder and Albert Gonzalez began to reflect on why, time and again he chose to do such bad things, the things that

landed him where he was today.

Quote, I've been asking myself why did I do it?

At first I did it for monetary reasons.

The service's salary wasn't enough when I needed the money. But then I'd already created

the snowball and had to keep doing it. I wanted to quit but couldn't.

In the opening episode in this series, we wondered what could have motivated Albert to make such bad decisions. Same for Jonathan James. It must have been

pathological, some kind of obsession. Quote, I remember so many times having arguments with my mother when she'd try to take the

computer power cord from me or she'd find me up at 6 a.m. on the computer when I had to be at school at 7.30.

Or when I'd be out with my girlfriend and not paying any attention to her

because I'd be thinking about what I could do online.

We have to be careful here.

The instinct with complicated stories is to create some kind of theme,

...