We have to pressure politicians.

You know, we have to pressure the politicians who are elected into office.

It's not just electing the right people into office.

You know, I'm much more interested in what happens before.

I'm much more interested in what happens before. Hello and welcome to Tech Won't Save Us, made in partnership with The Nation magazine.

I'm your host, Paris Marks, and this week my guest is Timnit Gebrou.

Timnett is the founder and executive director of the Distributed AI Research Institute.

Now, Timnett has been on the show a few times in the past.

It's always great to get her insights.

And with everything happening with AI recently, I figured it was a good opportunity to get her back on the show to reflect on these things, but also to think about the wider moment that we're in and, you know, the bigger

conversations that we probably need to be having right now, if we're to think about what a better

future might look like or could be in, you know, a moment that does seem very dark, very

discouraging when, you know, probably we need to be thinking of some hopeful things here too. So in this conversation, we dig into what deep seek, you know, probably we need to be thinking of some hopeful things here, too.

So in this conversation, we dig into what deep seek, you know, this new Chinese AI model

actually means for the American and European AI industries, how open AI and a lot of these

companies seem to be trying to charge ahead with this model of AI development that they have been pushing for the past, you know, couple of years now at least.

But how, you know, that really doesn't seem to be working out. How, you know, creating these very expensive AI models and AI systems does not seem like it's going to lead to some business that is actually going to make sense at the end of the day.

And while they claim that this is going to deliver to some business that is actually going to make sense at the end of the day.

And while they claim that this is going to deliver some big advancement in computation by building these computer systems that are going to be so, so smart, you know, it's hard to

really believe those assertions.

And even if we did, is that the future that we really want to achieve?

But of course, the other big question here is around geopolitics and how AI is increasingly

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