Hi everyone and welcome to our podcast in Good Company.

I'm Nicola Tangan and leader of the Norwegian Someone Wealtham.

Today we are releasing a bonus episode with the one and only Adam Grant,

the most influential management thinker in the world.

He has also written several of my absolute favorite books.

This was a really fascinating conversation and he challenged me quite a bit.

Stay tuned.

Well, it's a great pleasure to have you on, Adam.

You are, and my wife will hate me for saying this, but you are actually one of my very

favorite people. Well, that must be a very long list, is all I can say. No, it's not actually

because you have written a lot of my really favorite books. But, you know, when you were in college,

you worked as a professional magician. So what was your favorite trick?

Well, I should say I'm long retired, but my favorite trick was a trick where I would tell a story with a deck of cards.

And every time I named a card, it would come to the top, even though I was shuffling, and the

audience got to cut the deck.

And it took about five minutes to do, and by by the end no one would let me into a casino

that's that sounds good are you have you taken anything from the from from from from the magic into

your definitely the element of surprise I think has been enormously powerful one of the things

that I learned as a magician was to misdirect. And I think that as an

organizational psychologist, I have to do the same thing. If I told you that, for example, that psychological

safety was important to have in an organization, you'd say, of course, I want people to be able to

speak up without fear. If instead I lead and tell you, you know, Amy Edmondson found something

...