From Wondering, I'm Lindsey Graham, and this is American Scam.

In the late 1970s, the FBI launched an unconventional sting operation designed to target white collar

criminals. The mission that came to be known as ABSCAM involved federal agents dressing up in

costume, pretending to be Middle Eastern businessmen. The FBI staged a lavish party on a yacht and took

part in illegal deals for titanium lining and casinos. And as the operation expanded, it came to ensnare

a wide range of elected officials, including members of Congress. At the center of ABSCAM was a

lifelong con artist named Mel Weinberg. Weinberg agreed to partner with the FBI, helping to plan

the operation and serving as an informant. In exchange, prosecutors would drop charges against Weinberg

and his romantic partner. But Weinberg's role in ABSCAM would later face scrutiny from Congress

and the press. Many raised questions about the FBI's use of informants, arguing it was improper

for a seasoned criminal to be given so much responsibility by law enforcement. And it's an issue

that according to my guest, Alexandra Natapov, has never fully been resolved. Natapov is a law

professor at Harvard and an expert in criminal justice. She's also the author of snitching,

criminal informants and the erosion of American justice. In our conversation, Natapov offers a

withering critique about the use of criminal informants, a practice she describes as both

unregulated and woven into the fabric of law enforcement. We also discuss why investigators sometimes

recruit children to service informants and how state governments have begun to take action to

reform a broken system. Our conversation is next.

Well done. You've sorted through the embarrassment of riches that is the modern podcast landscape

and found me, Rob Briden, on my podcast. In this series of Briden and I talk to, among others,

Harry Hill, Ben Elton, Charlotte Church, Steve Cougan, and Dame Harriet Walter. And that's just

a few. We tend to chat for about 45 minutes to an hour, never longer. It's terrific conversation,

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