Hi, I'm Zivie Owens, and I am the host of this podcast. Moms don't have time to read books.

I am also a newly minted USA Today bestselling author of the novel, Blank.

I've created a whole community of book lovers around this podcast, a publishing company, reading retreats, a bookstore, and more.

Learn more at zivimedia.com or follow me on social at Zivie Owens or join the community at

Zibby Readers.

Sarah Manguso is the author of Liars, a novel.

She's the author of nine books, including very cold people, which was long-listed

for the Penn Gene Stein Award. Her other books include a short story collection, two poetry

collections, and four acclaimed works of nonfiction, 300 arguments, ongoingness, the guardians,

and the two kinds of decay, which was shortlisted for the Welcome Book Prize.

Her poems have appeared in four editions of the Best American Poetry series, and her essays have

appeared in Freeze, Harper's McSweeney's, The New Yorker, The New York Review of Books, the New York Times

Magazine, and many other places. Her work has been recognized by the American Academy of Arts and Letters

Literature Award, a Guggenheim Fellowship, Hotter Fellowship, and the Rome Prize. Her writing

has been translated into 12 languages. She grew up in Massachusetts and now lives in Los Angeles,

where she teaches creative writing at Antioch University and gives manuscript consultations

through the Shipman Agency.

Welcome, Sarah. Thank you so much for coming on moms. Don't have time to read books to discuss

your book, Liars, which, by the way, I had to keep looking like a hundred times to make sure this was

a novel. I was like, it is a novel, right? Autobiographical? I don't know. Okay, I guess we're

starting. Thanks for having me.

Okay, here I'll back up. Okay, Sarah, what is Liars about? Lyers is a novel about just how easily a marriage between progressive seeming people equals can devolve into a traditional marriage between a husband and a domestic abuse victim.

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