From away to garden.com and Robinhood Radio.com, this is Away to Garden with Margaret Roach. You're a weekly invitation to dig in and grow. There may be no moment in the year when my friend Kendri is an eye or more grateful for the range of textures and colors of foliage that we made room for in our gardens than we are right now in the hottest stretch of summer days when springs non-stop flower show is just a distant memory. Ken's here to talk about planning and planting for strong visual interest even in the dog days, so more in a moment but first these messages. Underwriting support for a way to garden provided by Colorblends wholesale flower bulbs, a third-generation bulb company offering top-sized flower bulbs directly to landscape professionals and ambitious residential gardeners on the web, Colorblends.com. And by High Moeng seeds, Wolcott Vermont, Professional Quality Vegetable, Flower, and Urbel Seeds that are 100% organic and non-GMO project verified. On the web, highmoingseeds.com and by Whiteflower Farm offering a wide range of carefully selected and expertly grown garden plants. On the web, whiteflower farm.com. Kendra is his author of 20 Garden Books and Gardens in a mostly shady spot in New Jersey where foliage is a major driver that makes his extensive landscape design work. Whether for herbaceous plants closer to ground level or in his tree and shrub choices, he's always on the lookout for the unusual selection of a particular plant that has something extra great leaves. I'm glad to welcome him back to the program today, so hi Ken, how are you? Hello Margaret, I am fine, a little bit warm. Toasty? Toasty? Are we toasty? Both sides. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's been hot. I guess the whole country, everybody's struggling with one thing or another in some places much worse, of course, than just hot. Yeah. Or another, exactly. Yeah. So just to sort of set the scene, spring is flowers, flowers, flowers, flowers, I think, I feel like the trees are flowering and the franials are flowering, the bulbs are flowering, there's a lot. And then I don't do a lot of annual color quote unquote for summer. I don't know about you. I have a few pots, but not much, right? Right. A few pots, exactly. And as you said, it's shady here, but there's little patch of sun. And that's where the day lilies are. I mean, the orange day lilies on roadside of bloom in some shade but I don't even want those but the back of your day lilies are in this little bit of sun and they're kind of over. They're ending with anything and this is the the law the July law of the I guess mid-summer law which happens those day lolees, and maybe when the summer flock starts blooming. So it's a quiet time, but here, it's time for leaves, time for plants. My flocks, my flocks, my flocks, a pinnacle out of the tall flocks, have started, you know, they're already doing their thing. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, depends on which variety you have, you have in what with the day lilies as well. You could have many, many, many weeks of daylies if you wanted to devote tons of space and have, you know, however many different varieties that were early middle and late season among day lilies or whatever. But, you know, in an average space, we're going to have a kind or two, you a variety or two and so we're going to have a not the maximum possible season we could

from. space we're going to have a kind or two, you know, a variety or two. And so we're going to have a, you know, not the maximum possible season we could from, from a particular species at plant, right? I've got about 15 feet at the front edge of a border, which is where the daylies are. And that's about it. Yeah. Yeah. And again, if you had 20 different kinds, you might have a longer bloom, but you wouldn't have the mass that you have anyway. But the other thing I find flower-wise that does make me feel happy at this time, this, as the summer heats up, is there's a lot of shrubs and trees that do have white flowers that I feel refreshed by in a way, like the hydrangeas start, you know, the oak leaf hydrangeas, for instance, have been blooming here for a couple of week or two. And I just, those big white flowers, and I have a big, big stand of elderberry, you know, native elderberry. And it just looked beautiful. You know, I can see it all from the window all the way across the garden.

It's just, you know, just covered in white flowers. And that feels nice. It's even cooling. Yes, yes. Well, it looks cooling. Yeah, but I don't, I don't plant a lot of summertime flowers. You know, again, I have like, you know, a big mass of a flocks in one spot, but you know it's not like I'm not operating a flower garden so to speak.

It's more of a foliage dominated landscape. And I think yours is similar and yours is even more structural in a way. You use a lot of shapes of plants as well. You're very particular about, you know, you have some very dramatic columnar elements and and other things like that that look good all the time. It's really just because I'm in love with them. It sounds like I planned it, but... Well, when I get... Well, unconsciously, maybe. Well, sometimes I'll move something, or I realize that something spiky might stop you in your tracks and something low and wide might be fuel cooling or lead you to a place to sit or something. You know, there are things that you can do with foliage. And I love the contrast in the textures and forms. Gee, I'm just in love with them. So you just said lead you to a place. And I think that's an important part of what foliage can really do over a long season, if something has its leaves from and where we live from, you know, may until October or whatever. That's a long season, longer than almost anything's going to bloom. Is it can lead you to a place like you said, lead the eye. And friends, years and years ago helped me to be more delivered about like, my thing is gold foliage, about sort of placing gold elements, elements of gold foliage, you know, shrubs and trees. On axis from key vantage points like windows or places that I sat and looked out at the garden, you know, to sort of say, come hither, you know, pull me out, pull my view out, catch my eye, all the way out to the extreme ends of the garden, and make these, as I said, like axial views, lined by, you know, along the way here and there, a gold element. Is that is how you use it to? Pretty much just like you said to catch your eye or to bring your eye to a place and then

in contrast to that to not have the go up close maybe right so that it does have the impact

and be kind of theatrical right because goal definitely like comes forward toward you right right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? forward toward you, right? Right, it's a screamer. And barrigation, too, is it? I think when it's white on green, it lights up sometimes some of the darker places. We're lucky enough to have gold do that. It advances. And whereas if you use dark purple foliage, it's a little bit more of like anchoring, receding, like a little heavier, I feel like. It doesn't scream as much as it feels weightier to me. Does that make sense? Yeah, I'm thinking about how much one can blend these colors. Have the red go to reddish green go to green go to gold can really make sort of spectral arrangements. Yeah. So, so maybe let's talk about some specific plants that you use or I use, you know, that we use for, yeah, when we start with gold sure. I think that's the most insistent one of all, you know, and it's, I may have overdone it, but, you know, that's one, are there some that you really are glad to have in the garden as you look out right now at this time of year when? I'm talking to you, so I'm thinking about you because I tried to grow, for example, Hakanah Kloa, Makra, Oriola, the variegated forest grass, one of the few grasses that can grow and shade. And it was such a whim and it's so slow. And then I think I attended a lecture by you and you had all gold, the variety all gold in a big bowl. And I thought, well, I should try that. And that plant is fast and big, so satisfying and so gold. And E-Mustade, you know, some things that are gold and shape turn green. They don't really last as long as they might in a little more light. But that's just wonderful. In my original plant, there's like three little blades and not exactly sure why. I know they're the oyster, but they're all gold anywhere. It's a great plant. That's a great plant. What about shrubs and so forth? I don't think I have. I used to have a... Well I have some golds and conifers. And some of them have gotten quite large. They have a couple of the big metasacquias, the dawnred woods, I guess they are called. The gold rush variety that are deciduous conifers. I have them up on the hill so you can kind of look up the hill and you know they call out to you so to speak from a distance. I would and they're really gold for you. I mean they really have a color in the leaves. Yeah. Gold rush? Yeah. Well, regular conifers that are evergreen, I just don't have enough sun for most of those. You have metacicoia and I do have water. That's one thing I have is groundwater and they love that so they go really fast. But I have Ogon which is the same I think as Gold Rush actually. Yeah, yeah. I think it may be Ogon. Yeah, and I'm translating it right. It's just barely... You can hardly tell that it's different from the other ones. Oh, it really and but it does very well, but it's it's not so gold when you don't have more sun. Yeah, I would say it's not a scream or like I have also some of the um uh camisiporous uh like for instance the uh cultivar called cryptsyiii, a Hanokey Cyprus,

Kami Cyprus, up to Cripsii. And they've gotten very big because I've been here a long time, they're like trees now. And they are very gold, you know, compared to the medisacquia. And they are evergreen conifers. But yeah. And so those are things that, you know, I'm glad to always have them. And then I have a lot of deciduous things, especially shrubs. They're gold like a gold leaf macaar and shrub and a gold spirea, spirea ogon. Speaking of that word ogon, that Japanese word for gold. That's a variety name of a lot of things. And, you know are at a distance, again, on an axial view from a particular window.

And it's like, I just look out and there they are. They are the sentinel, you know.

Well, I have a plant that's kind of new to me, which is leukoceptrum,

japonica, golden angel.

So that's a perennial, right?

That's herbaceous.

And it's a mint family, so it's not out of control, but it's a nice clump. I could make a hedge out of it. And it's in quite a bit of shade and it's gold. I have that too. I got it from Broken Arrow Nursery a number of years ago and I have a big stand of it now. It looks like it looks looks like pokeweed sort of the leaves. And there are gold pokeweeds among native things perennials. I guess pokeweeds are perennial. I don't know. It's sort of an odd creature. It is, because sometimes it's not where you put it. The next year it's a way to... Right. Well, it definitely soes around. But yeah, and there are, but there are gold selections of it too. Besides the straight green, that's, that's the straight species. Do you have different, any different ones? Well, yeah. I have a gold one that looks like it's blast with green. It's really magnificently beautiful. I'm always sorry that it's kind of that the birds like it so much. Oh, they move it around. They move it around. Yeah. But it comes true from seed. A lot of these plants don't, you know, a lot of things that have variegation when they so they come up green, unfortunately. Right. Right. There's a variety that you can get seeds for that's completely gold called sunny side up, I think. That's really screaming gold and you can get to like six or seven feet, a pokeweed. Vitalaka. Yeah. Yeah. If I lock Americana. And I love pokeweed. I mean, I know that it's got that weed word in it and that all is as a deterrent to people. But I love it. And all the parts are poisonous other than the young leaves. Some people do saute the young leaves, but other than that, everything else, once it's not completely tender little young leaves and anything raw and any of the parts are all poisonous to mammals. So it's not animals who eat the fruit. It's birds

because it's not harmful to them. Yeah. So that's kind of fun to see a bird picking over those. Because you know, there's such an amazing color. They're like a violet purplish color. Really beautiful. And they'll stain your hands. Indeed. Indeed. Indeed. A beautiful color. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So key placement of some gold things. What about then? So and barricaded. Also, it's going to again, advance visually like come feel like it's pulling you closer. In an actack like a beacon to a spot, but that's maybe farther away. And the variegated can be yellow and green or splashed with green like that phytolecha or white often very often white and green or gray green. And sometimes it starts out gold and green and then changes to cream and green. I have a wonderful tree, Cornus Controversa, Verigada. Remember how we all wanted that plant years ago? My gosh, mine is over 30 years old now. It's sort of like a wedding cake tree, you know, it's in tears. It's beautiful. But there's, there's native ones too.

I have a wonderful surces, canadensis called silver cloud. There's a couple of variegated ones. And the leaves are almost white. And sometimes I wonder how it's alive. So that's a red bud, the surces canadensis. Right, a red bud. And it actually has the same flowers, but the leaves are practically white. and heart tilt. It's very pretty.

This is the problem of them.

Huh, this past year I got a, in a place where I had years ago, a red leafed barberry, which of course we've all gotten rid of all our barberries because we've learned how damaging barbroughs are to the environment, the wider environment as birds move the fruits around

into woodlands and so forth. I had this empty space and I wanted that, you know, purpley reddish color again and I got a assertus, a weeping Oh yes.

Thursus that is I think it's called Ruby Falls maybe.

Uh-huh. assertus a weeping. Oh, yes. Thursus that is, I think it's called Ruby Falls, maybe. That's I think they're right. Yeah. And it's interesting to watch it start to shape up. It's not, you know, it has an, it's just settling in still. But it's going to, it's, it's pushing, you know, it's starting to take off a little bit. So that's going to be fun. Dark red, wine red kind of like for pansy. Yes, yes, exactly, exactly. So that's going to be fun to have that take shape. And in that color, I also love, I have a very old nine-barc or phyzocarpus, one that's diablo. Yeah, and that really attracts attention at a distance, even though it's dark colored, you know, in recedes in a sense visually, it's big and bodacious. You know, it's like zone two or something. Yeah, I think they're Pacific, north-western natives? I've seen them in Canada. So yeah, exactly. But I think they're Western. I think it's more Northwestern than into Canada. Beautiful. There's a lot of choices of nine bark. There's gold nine bark. Dart's gold is one of the originals. And I've had that forever. So dwarf one of that looks just like it. I can't exactly remember. I think it's like Naina or something. Right. But those are the kinds of things that you can think about to add. Those are just planning and forgetting things. Those are great for the outer edges of the property because they're so self-reliant. Yeah. And with some of my older ones, them back, you know, I've made, cut them back to the ground and rejuvenated them, so to speak, if they've gotten too big or whatever, I've rejuvenated them even more than once. So they're very tough creatures. I, in Canada, a lot of people, for some reason, grow them as low hedges and,. And so in Montreal, you can drive around and see low hedges in front of almost every house of gold. Well, that would be gorgeous. I don't know what happened. Oh, interesting. So Faisal Carpis says a hatching plan. Huh, interesting. I know I've told you about my red peach and I'm so interested in there are a lot of red peaked red-leaved peaches and I have a red leaf peach that I use as a cutback because it keeps pushing great gorgeous new red growth and now you're getting me thinking about so many things I'm thinking about. Catanas grace, do you grow that? Right. So the various smoke bushes and smoke trees. Yes. And I do have a Catynas grace in a spot where I lost a Korean maple right by the driveway when you first come in. And I put a Catynas grace in there and it's just starting to shape up finally after a few years. But it's indescribable really the color. I don't even know what color to say. I think those leaves are to you. I say blue green and the new girls is kind of reddish pinkish orange and... Exactly. So you're basically saying it's the kaleidoscope. And I think it's a hybrid think it's a hybrid with an American coutinus. Yes, it is, I think it is with this, yes. And it's just mines flowering. And you know, so it has those frothy kind of foam of flowers as well. Flour is as well. It's a smooth bush. And yeah. Well, I don't let't let my flower because I want to pull these and cut it back. Usually I cut it back to about two feet every other year, but every like eight years, right to the ground and then leave it alone for a couple of years and it comes, goes to four of both. It's a big plant. I can go to like eight feet, I think. Oh, well, this one's much bigger than that because I'm not cutting it back. I'm trying to spill a space where a big. With the flowers, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it's pretty big. It's probably 12 feet or so high right now. You know, we're talking about tall things and big things and all of a sudden it comes to my mind that there are very good ground covers too. Oh, of course, of course, yeah, yeah, but before we go any further in color, because I don't want to run out of time, it's, you know, the other, the other element and, you know, by some of the examples we've been giving, we've been alluding to it, but not saying it out loud is texture. I mean, that's the other thing is to sort of paint these pictures with textures, right?

Texture and scale.

Friends for a ferny texture and things like, I know you love

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