But she's not wrong. I mean, she's really on to the problem.

She's spot on.

And that's why we're sitting here speechless, which we have to, you know, as a culture would sometimes they sit with that for a little bit and just

dwell upon the ways we've tried to manipulate doing church to fulfill felt needs, but the root issue is the one that the gospel actually meets.

She had that line in there.

We know that church is not going to be able to magically fix all of our problems, something like this.

If the church could understand that about itself, what would that do?

How would that change the way we preached and how would that change the way we welcomed people back

into the church not so that they could be fixed up enough to show up on Sunday

but they'd be welcome back in just as they are, to use the old him, here with

the rest of us, sinners, who don't have all of our issues figured out, but are all struggling

to make it through all the while the face of

God is smiling upon us on account of Jesus Christ.

That's wonderful. applying the riches of the reformation to the modern church.

This is Whitehorse Sin, a weekly roundtable discussion about theology and culture. Hello and welcome to another edition of White Horse Sin where we are finishing up our series on the great

de-churching. We have been riffing really off of a terrific book called The Great D. Churching by Jim Davis and Michael Graham with Ryan R. Burge.

And Justin Holcomb, one of our panelists, had a great interview with these authors, and in fact was, they said, a catalyst for the writing of this book.

And so it's great to have Justin with us. We also have Bob Hiller,

who's the pastor of Community Lutheran Church, and Walter Strickland is professor of theology at

southeastern Baptist theological seminary. We're having a really fantastic

conversation I think in part because we were all expecting well you

knew Justin already ahead of time but a booklet the great de-churching that it

...