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Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer

A Tale of Two Tax Systems (with David Cay Johnston)

Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer

Civic Ventures

Business, Government, News, Politics

4.81.5K Ratings

🗓️ 27 February 2024

⏱️ 41 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

While the average American worker is subject to a progressive income tax system where tax rates increase as income rises, the wealthy often exploit a range of loopholes and deductions that significantly reduce their tax burden—sometimes to the point where the biggest corporations and one-percenters pay nothing at all. David Cay Johnston, a tax policy expert and former investigative journalist for the New York Times, joins us today to help unravel the complexity of the American tax system, which has functionally created two different tax systems: One for the wealthy and powerful and one for everyone else. David Cay Johnston is an award-winning investigative journalist and author known for his expertise in tax policy and economic inequality. Johnston worked as a tax reporter for The New York Times for over a decade. At the Times, he won the Pulitzer Prize for Beat Reporting in 2001 for his coverage of tax loopholes and corporate tax evasion. Throughout his career, Johnston has authored several critically acclaimed books, including "Perfectly Legal: The Covert Campaign to Rig Our Tax System to Benefit the Super Rich—and Cheat Everybody Else" and “Divided: The Perils of Our Growing Inequality.” Twitter: @DavidCayJ The Whiteness of Wealth: How the Tax System Impoverishes Black Americans--and How We Can Fix It by Dorothy Brown https://bookshop.org/a/101360/9780525577331 More from David Cay Johnston: “Alvin Bragg’s roadmap to convict Donald Trump” https://www.nydailynews.com/2023/01/08/alvin-braggs-roadmap-to-convict-donald-trump/ Perfectly Legal: The Covert Campaign to Rig Our Tax System to Benefit the Super Rich--and Cheat Everybody Else https://bookshop.org/a/101360/9781591840695 Free Lunch: How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government Expense (and Stick You with the Bill) https://bookshop.org/a/101360/9781591842484 Divided: The Perils of Our Growing Inequality https://bookshop.org/a/101360/9781595589231 Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com Twitter: @PitchforkEcon Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics Nick’s twitter: @NickHanauer

Transcript

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0:00.0

The rising inequality and growing political instability that we see today are the direct result of decades of bad economic theory.

0:10.0

It's time to build our economy from the bottom up and from the middle out, not the top down.

0:15.5

Middle out economics is the answer.

0:17.8

Because Wall Street didn't build this country.

0:20.1

Great middle class built this country.

0:22.2

The more the middle class thrives,

0:24.3

the better the economy is for everyone,

0:27.5

even rich people like me. This is pitchfork economics with Nick Hanauer, a podcast about how to build the economy from the middle out.

0:42.0

Welcome to the show.

0:44.0

We're recording this the middle of February, Nick, which means we're into tax season.

0:55.6

So I'm sure you're busy, you've got all your receipts out and you're

1:00.5

filling out the forms like a good American working through your taxes, right?

1:06.7

Or using the turbo tax?

1:09.1

Which software do you use next?

1:10.8

Yeah, not me. Nope. Yeah, not me.

1:13.6

Yeah, yeah, and I say this, I raise this obviously, you're not doing your own taxes,

1:21.5

which speaks to, I think think the point of this podcast that we kind of have two

1:26.1

different tax systems in the United States Nick there's the one for people like me where in fact I don't I don't actually itemize anymore my

1:36.9

taxes are simpler I take that standard deduction but I have to fill out the

1:41.2

forms and I do my taxes myself. I get I get the download the W2 from you. Thank you very much Nick and a few other 1099s and stuff like that and I fill out my own taxes and but mostly the tax I paid to the federal government has all been withheld.

1:58.3

Either it's a small refund or I've got to pay a little bit.

2:02.0

It depends on how the years go.

...

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