A psychoanalyst and a priest share insights in 'Love's Labor' and 'Work in Progress'

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Arts, Books

4.2 • 672 Ratings

🗓️ 27 February 2026

⏱️ 19 minutes

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Summary

New books by a psychoanalyst and a priest have something in common: They draw on the experience of holding other people’s stories. Stephen Grosz says his book, Love’s Labor, is a collection of “hard-won truths” he’s arrived at through sessions with his patients. In today’s episode, he speaks with NPR’s Ayesha Rascoe about his observations on love, work and relationships. Then, Father James Martin joins NPR’s Scott Detrow for a conversation about Work in Progress. They discuss the litany of odd jobs Martin held before becoming a priest – and what ultimately led him to the church.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Hey, it's Empire's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbaugh. There are people out there
0:06.6	whose job is to be a container for other people, by which I mean they're there to listen
0:12.1	as other people tell them their deepest fears, biggest dreams, wildest imaginations.
0:18.2	It's a tough job, I think. Most of the time, it involves keeping secrets,
0:22.5	holding these people's stories inside. And you have to listen non-judgmentally.
0:28.2	Today on the pod, we've got two people who have these container jobs. One is a Catholic
0:33.1	priest. The other is a psychoanalyst. Let's start with a psychoanalyst.
0:38.2	Stephen Gross.
0:42.7	His latest book is called Love's Labor, How We Break and Make the Bonds of Love.
0:48.5	And it's lessons from years of listening to patients chip away at building a loving relationship.
0:55.6	And Paris Aisha Roscoe talks to Gross about what makes some relationships work and what is the hardest part of his job.
0:56.6	That's ahead.
1:05.2	Romantic love is the stuff of poetry and music, the plot of books and movies, the pursuit,
1:09.9	the conflict, the resolution, and the happily ever after.
1:14.3	Except there's also this reality. Love is work.
1:20.0	To me, we deceive ourselves about love. I think for psychoanalysts like myself,
1:25.9	well, for most people, they know they've had experiences where they've not seen very clearly the who, what, and why of who they love. They've come with
1:31.2	great hopes or great fears. They get things wrong. That's Stephen Gross. Yes, a psychoanalyst,
1:37.7	an author of the new book, Love's Labor. We have the ability to undo self-deception and to see clearly.
1:46.6	And what I think of as love's labor is the work we must do to see clearly ourselves and the people we love.
1:52.9	Okay, we already got really deep.
1:55.4	You tell stories about some of your patients with their permission and with pseudomines.
	...

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