A philosopher's psychedelic encounter with reality

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Society & Culture, News, Politics, News Commentary, Philosophy

4.6 • 10.8K Ratings

🗓️ 4 May 2023

⏱️ 48 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Why don't more philosophers take psychedelic drugs seriously as a means of examining reality? Sean Illing talks with Justin Smith-Ruiu, professor of philosophy, whose recent essay "This Is a Philosopher on Drugs" tells of how experimenting with psilocybin and other substances led to a radical reevaluation of nearly everything in his life — including his views on the nature of reality. They discuss the roots of an alternative worldview in the thought of German polymath G.W. Leibniz, what it means to say — as Socrates does — that philosophy is "preparation for death," and why psychedelics aren't more often explored in contemporary philosophy. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area Guest: Justin Smith-Ruiu, philosopher; author References: "This Is a Philosopher on Drugs" by Justin E.H. Smith (Wired; Mar. 7) Justin Smith-Ruiu's Hinternet (Substack) The Internet Is Not What You Think It Is by Justin E.H. Smith (Princeton; 2022) "The brutal mirror: What the psychedelic drug ayahuasca showed me about my life" by Sean Illing (Vox; Nov. 2, 2019) G.W. Leibniz, "The Monadology" (1714) René Descartes, Meditations on First Philosophy (1641) Irrationality: A History of the Dark Side of Reason by Justin E.H. Smith (Princeton; 2019) Plato, Phaedo (for Socrates's claim that philosophy is preparation for death) Reality+ by David Chalmers (W.W. Norton; 2022) David Chalmers on The Gray Area (Jan. 10, 2022) Justin's review of David Chalmers: "The World as a Game" (Liberties, vol. 2 no. 4) "The Death of Ivan Ilych" by Leo Tolstoy (1886) How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan (Penguin; 2018) Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts This episode was made by: Producer: Erikk Geannikis Engineer: Patrick Boyd Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	I talk a lot about psychedelics on the show, and there are a few reasons for that.
0:09.4	One is that I'm interested in the therapeutic potential of these drugs.
0:14.7	We're in the midst of a surge in psychedelic research right now, and that's enormously
0:18.8	promising.
0:19.8	Anything that offers a new way to address mental health problems is worth exploring.
0:26.4	And another reason is that psychedelics are incredibly strange and fascinating.
0:35.6	It's a way to have your view of reality transformed, or at least unmoored in some fundamental
0:41.4	way.
0:42.9	That has certainly been my own experience with psychedelics, some of which I've written
0:47.5	about four vox.
0:49.4	I am much less certain today than I used to be about the nature of my own mind.
0:56.4	And it's a relationship to the world around me.
0:59.6	In that way, there seems to be some important overlap between exploring psychedelics and
1:05.1	asking philosophical questions, which is what we try to do on the show.
1:11.6	How do we know that what we're experiencing is real and not some illusion or hallucination?
1:22.2	These sorts of questions are central to Renee Descartes in his 17th century work, the
1:28.1	Meditations on First Philosophy.
1:31.0	If you've taken a philosophy course, you probably know Descartes.
1:34.7	And there are also the kinds of questions you ask yourself when you take psychedelics.
1:39.5	So why don't more philosophers take psychedelics seriously?
1:46.5	I'm Sean Elling, and this is The Great Area.
1:52.2	My guest today is Justin Smith-Ruyup.
	...

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