How do you respond to that? Is that what are you doing there? Are you?

I'm cringing? Yes, it's a little bit of a cringe of oh yeah, yeah, I know.

A lot of evangelical churches have become a little tiny rock concert of worship songs and a TED Talk that's a sermon.

It's very culturally thin. You just say whenever

say whenever we're good yeah Yeah. Okay. So this is it. Gavin Orland, good to have you. Great to be

back. Yeah, this is fun. Yeah, this is great. So I was in Italy recently and I saw on

your social media that you were in Italy so it was

wonderful just to hang out yeah I enjoyed it did you get so I posted that picture of

you and me outside of St. Peter's Gavin has a massive announcement he He's still not becoming Catholic. Did you get any, I don't know,

rumblings on your side? No, no, your followers are very gracious. Oh really? All the comments are very kind and

no, it's great to have. I mean, that's what I was thinking about coming here. it's great to have I mean that's what I was

thinking about coming here it's great to have friendship whenever we can and just a

positive relationship across different traditions yeah you and I just found out that we were born the same year.

You're probably looking at me being like black to hell, am I that old?

But yes you are.

Yeah, yeah, 83 babies.

I don't know if you feel this. Yeah, 83 babies.

I don't know if you feel this. I feel my aging and it's a strange thing. I gave a talk to law students two nights ago and I was referencing movies all three of the movies I referenced none of them no one in the room had seen them or heard of them like

what what were the movies contact okay contact it's not I mean it's not the most popular movie but it's not that bad.

It's a little nerdy maybe but it's a great movie you know in 1990s Matthew McConaughey.

No one had heard of this movie and I thought Jody Foster.

Jody Foster.

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