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secure. Hello, Erica. Hi, Kimmy. Welcome to this week's episode of A Little Wiser on, wait for it, listening.

Yes.

And you may be listening to some construction in the background, drills.

There's lots of potential things.

As you know, I'm moving.

And so I'm just hiding out in a construction zone

and recording a little wiser on the art of listening with you.

I think that you have officially earned your podcast badge of honor because you first were going

to record in your car and now you're recording in a construction zone. So I believe now you are a true

podcaster. Yes, I do.

I've earned some sort of stripe, not sure.

So yeah, but our interview, I should say are, because you and I work on these

interviews together, with Richard last week, who, for those of you who have not listened,

was a very famous, is a famous hostage negotiator, was really about the art of listening. And why we've said art of listening now

...