Hi, I'm Miriam William Williamson, and thank you so much for being here with me today, for conversations that matter.

You know, some people talk, and we all want to listen.

And Ununjured It Oz is certainly one of those people for me.

He is a writer most recently of a book called Winners Take All, the Elite Chorade of Changing the World.

Recently published in 2018, his other books are The True American Murder and Mercy in Texas

about a Muslim immigrant campaign to spare from death row the white supremacist who tried to kill him,

and also a book called India Calling, An Intimate Portrait of a Nation's Remaking, about his own returning to India after his parents had left. Anna, join me today so that we could talk about what's really happening in America. That to me is the thread that is woven throughout this podcast. How did we get to where we are? If we don't have a deeper understanding of how we got to where we are, we don't have a deep understanding of where we are now. And if we don't have an understanding of those

two things, we don't know where to go from here. So, Anne Girda Ras, is someone who to me has a lot of insight about all three of those questions. I hope that you enjoy our conversation. Anne Girda Rast, thank you so much for being with me today. I'm so happy to be with you. Thank you. I want to tell you two anecdotes that will explain why when I read your book, Winners Take

All.

I had this huge yes.

You know, there's in James Joyce, I think in, I'm not which book, I'm not sure which

book, but he says somebody is almosting something. I was almost in something.

And when I read Winters Take All, it was like, yes, I get it. So these are the two issues. I've

had a lot of experience in the nonprofit world. I have founded nonprofits and it's been a big part

of my life. And one of the things that I've noticed over the last few decades, the last couple

of decades particularly, is, you know, so much of the work in the nonprofit world has to do

with fundraising. So I noticed how much of my time was spent courting these corporate givers,

courting these corporate donations, meeting with people at these charitable corporate offices right, and you work so hard to get their

$25,000, you work so hard to get their $50,000. Not only that, then

you need to make a big deal about them at the fundraiser and their name is

everywhere. Now these are some nice people and the people in the office are

thinking this is really great because I'm helping do good for the world.

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