Welcome to a special episode of the Crossway podcast.

I'm Matt Tully, and today we have an important, timely interview to share with you.

Mark Vrogop serves as the lead pastor of College Park Church in Indianapolis, Indiana.

He's also a council member for the Gospel Coalition, a trustee of Cedarville University,

and the author of two books, including Weep with Me, How Lament Opens a Door for Racial

Reconciliation from Crossway. About a month ago, Mark and I sat down to discuss the challenge

of racial reconciliation and how the biblical practice

of lament offers Christians from different backgrounds, a common language for productive, God-honoring

conversation.

He shared from his own experiences walking alongside and learning from minority culture Christians,

recounted the time that God opened his eyes to his own blindness

while sitting in the office of an African American pastor and offered a response to those who

wonder if the evangelical church in America will ever make real progress on these issues.

Let's get started.

Mark, thank you so much for joining me on the Crossplay podcast today.

That's great to be with you today. Thanks for having me. So today we're going to talk about racial

reconciliation and how the practice of lament can serve as a starting point for coming together

as Christians, regardless of race or ethnicity. But at the risk of

stating the obvious, a 30-minute conversation like this is not sufficient for this big, multifaceted

topic, nor is even a whole book, for that matter. But it is a start. And so before getting into the

details of what you're trying to do with your new book, but it is a start. And so before getting into the details of what

you're trying to do with your new book, can you spend a minute sharing about what your

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