Hello and welcome to Judge Whiticle a podcast from America Media for Saints and Sinners. You can join us each week for honest conversations about the Catholic Church in our world today.

Often over drinks.

I'm Ashley McKinliss and I'm joined by Zach Davis. It's great to be with you

Ashley. We have a really exciting episode for Lent because we actually have it over

drinks this time. Yeah that's right this. This is a very, very lengthy episode.

We're coming down to the Home Stretch in Lent.

So I think we got Palm Sunday and Holy Week next week.

So we wanted to revive one of our regular practices of the show, which is having something over drinks, but we didn't want to abandon our no alcohol on the show rule during Lent.

Yes, so we'll get to the specific drink we're having, but first we want to introduce our guests

because he's the one who introduced this drink to us and that is Derek Brown

he is the founder of Positive Damage Inc and an expert on no and low alcohol cocktails and mindful drinking.

Yeah, I've been wanting to do an episode like this for a long time both because I feel like there's

been a huge rise in people reconsidering their relationship to alcohol.

And we figure that was good practice on the show.

You know, we certainly don't want to exclude people from the sharing our beverages

around the podcast table.

So Derek is someone who has a really fascinating story both how he became Catholic but also sort of his journey with alcohol and where he's landed in to what he now calls mindful drinking.

Yeah, and in our interview,

you'll hear Derek talking about his time

as a bartender, and he's pretty humble in our conversation.

He's an award-winning cocktail mixologist.

He has books on it.

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