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The Michael Shermer Show

97. Amber Scorah — Leaving the Witness: Exiting a Religion and Finding a Life

The Michael Shermer Show

Michael Shermer

Dialogue, Science, Reason, Michaelshermer, Natural Sciences, Skeptic

4.4921 Ratings

🗓️ 31 December 2019

⏱️ 96 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In this revealing conversation Amber Scorah opens the box into the psychology of religious belief to show how, exactly, religions and cults convince members that theirs is the one true religion, to the point, she admits, that she would have gladly died for her faith. As a third-generation Jehovah’s Witness, Amber Scorah had devoted her life to sounding God’s warning of impending Armageddon. She volunteered to take the message to China, where the preaching she did was illegal and could result in her expulsion or worse. Here, she had some distance from her community for the first time. Immersion in a foreign language and culture — and a whole new way of thinking — turned her world upside down, and eventually led her to lose all that she had been sure was true. As a proselytizer in Shanghai, using fake names and secret codes to evade the authorities’ notice, Scorah discreetly looked for targets in public parks and stores. To support herself, she found work at a Chinese language learning podcast, hiding her real purpose from her coworkers. Now with a creative outlet, getting to know worldly people for the first time, she began to understand that there were other ways of seeing the world and living a fulfilling life. When one of these relationships became an “escape hatch,” Scorah’s loss of faith culminated in her own personal apocalypse, the only kind of ending possible for a Jehovah’s Witness. Shunned by family and friends as an apostate, Scorah was alone in Shanghai and thrown into a world she had only known from the periphery — with no education or support system. A coming of age story of a woman already in her thirties, this unforgettable memoir examines what it’s like to start one’s life over again with an entirely new identity. Scorah and Shermer also discuss:

  • the legals and logistics of writing a memoir
  • the rise of the nones and disbelief and why stories like hers provide social proof for living without religion
  • what Jehovah’s Witnesses believe and why they believe it
  • what it’s like to go door-to-door witnessing for a religion
  • Armageddon and what doomsayers do when the world doesn’t end
  • the mindset of the fundamentalist
  • why religions are obsessed with female sexuality
  • why religions forbid homosexuality
  • the psychology of deconversion
  • the problem of evil, or why bad things happen to good people
  • how she would try to talk someone out of joining ISIS
  • what it’s like to be expelled from a religion and be an apostate, and
  • how to start your life over when you’ve lost everything.

Amber Scorah is a writer living in Brooklyn, NY. Her articles have been published in The New York Times, The Believer, and USA Today. Prior to coming to New York, Scorah lived in Shanghai, where she was creator and host of the podcast Dear Amber: An Insider’s Guide to Everything China. Leaving the Witness is her first book.

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Transcript

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0:00.0

We bring you these podcasts once a week, non-fiction authors of new books this week is

0:07.4

leaving the witness, exiting a religion and finding a life by Amber Scora.

0:16.0

Amber is a former Jehovah Witness,

0:18.4

and this is her memoir of her life

0:20.8

as a witness in Vancouver, then in China, and then she, how, she lost her religion and now lives in New York City as a writer.

0:30.0

And so her book is about that, and our conversation is very wide-ranging in which I try to use her specific

0:39.9

examples from her memoir to explore deeper themes about the purpose of religion, what

0:46.8

role it serves in people's lives, the whole idea of the end of the world, the apocalypse, what kind of psychological beliefs are behind that, the role that that plays, human history and in human beliefs.

1:00.0

We talk about religion's obsession with sex, particularly female sexuality, this, just

1:08.6

ages long, just obsession with controlling women's reproductive choices.

1:16.6

We get into finding meaning and purpose and happiness in life and so on with religion and without. Do we need to replace

1:26.6

it with something? Her own tragedy she's gone through which she writes about in the book,

1:33.0

at the loss of her son, and how that

1:35.0

would have felt had she been a witness

1:37.2

as opposed to not a believer now.

1:40.2

And then finally, we just kind of cover the broad range of of

1:45.4

deconversion. What does it take to talk somebody out of or

1:48.8

reason somebody out of a belief that they didn't reason their way to in the

1:52.4

first place.

1:53.2

That is, if you were born and raised,

1:54.9

a particular religion or whatever your ideology is,

1:58.5

how do you talk somebody out of that?

...

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