I don't really enjoy doing things that I don't have confidence doing or a level of competency at.

There's a level of a threshold where it becomes sort of a friction point for people or barrier of entry for people,

where they won't start something until they know they're good enough at it,

but ironically, you have to do the thing to get better at it to become good enough to continue to do it.

You know, when we thing to get better at it to become good enough to continue to do it.

You know, when we consider the two aspects like effort versus form, it's usually, I mean, it's always it depends, but it's also like it depends on who it is, you know, and there's certain circumstances where we would go one way or another. And I think hearing the discussion between us two on it and getting people to actually see how our brain works around the question and around the quote unquote debate is like the gold. You know,

that's where people will get a lot out of it. So for context of this podcast, I do want to preface that me and Austin are friends.

We're not arguing on this.

We agree on a lot of things.

I think that he's a really good person to have this discussion with.

I'm also going to, I want to say this because, and you might have experienced this too.

Like I've been on podcasts before

where I'm being interviewed to quote unquote. And there's times where I'm like, God, this person

talks a lot for me being the person supposed to be being interviewed. So I want to preface that this is like,

this is supposed to be an equal conversation between both of us on the show. So it's not like, I'm just interviewed. So if people are like, shut the fuck up, Cody and let Austin talk. It's because we're

both here to talk about the same thing. So the first thing I want to do is a really quick intro,

obviously who you are. And then just like education background would be, because I think that's a big

point of why I wanted to talk about

this with you, just like the things you've gone through from courses and certifications and

like the book you wrote and things like that, I think make you really fit for this conversation.

So I want you to shout that stuff out right away.

And then we'll kind of get into the the first layer of this discussion

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