Welcome back to the Art of Online Business Podcast. I have Jock Hopkins as a guest, and I also have my wife who's going to be accompanying me, as you've seen in previous episodes.

And so in this episode, we get to talk to Jock. He's a unique online course creator coach, where he teaches online course creators how to do marketing and all these things to sell their

course. But he also did it first himself with his course called Piano in 21 days. So he actually

knows a lot from personal experience about creating a course, marketing it, and selling it in a niche

that has nothing to do with teaching people how to make money.

And before we hit record, Doc, you were even saying, like, the fact that you did it with your

piano course does make it, like, more relatable. And I agree, like, rather than, I'm just yet

another guest who teaches people how to make money with their courses. And that's how I make money.

Yeah, exactly. Look, Quay Joe, Jamie, thank you so much for this opportunity.

The Art of Online Business.

I mean, what a great name for a podcast.

I know it's been around for a while.

I've certainly listened here and there over the many, many years.

I've been doing this a long time.

The art of online business.

Absolutely love online business.

I've got a couple of businesses myself. that first one was teaching piano online, right, in an online business. And yeah, I do kind of have like a course on courses and I help people with courses now, but it's, it's kind of hard to start

there, right? You got to have some credibility. You got to have, you can't just start there because

why would I listen to somebody teaching me how to do a course who's only ever made money from

teaching people how to do a course, right? That's a little weird,

right? So I've been doing this for 11 years in terms of my piano course business and then my

second business because I love the art of online business. I love that so much. I now talk about

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