All right, you, welcome to the Scott Horton Show.

I'm the director of the Libertarian Institute, editorial director of anti-war.com,

and author of Provoked, how Washington started the new Cold War with Russia and the catastrophe in Ukraine.

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All right, you guys. On the line, I got Larry Johnson. He used to be CIA, but it was a long time ago. He's a good dude. Long, long time ago. He runs this thing called Sonar 21, where he writes these really great articles that I read all the time, and of course, he's obsessed with the Russia-Ukraine War like the rest of us. Welcome back to the show. How you doing, Larry? Thank you, Scott, for the invite. Glad to be with you. You know what? I think that was an illegitimate back. I think this is the first time I've ever interviewed you, actually. So just welcome to the show. Yeah, actually, I interviewed you first. That's right. I remember we used to write about

you back in the days of W. Bush, the plane leak and all of that stuff, like way back. So I sure

remember you from those days. And I were classmates at CIA. We started off in the career

training program in September of 1985.

Oh, is that right? I knew her when she was a youngster.

Interesting. So, well, let's just talk about that for a second.

My old lady, Larissa Alexandrovna Horton, she had the story that Plame was working on Iran and that the real reason that they outed her was so that they could close one eye about what was going on in Iran so that they could pretend to believe fake things instead of having their own lady debunk the lies of the danger of the program at the time.

Would you think of that?

No, I don't, you know, having talked to Valerie about this, she actually, she was genuinely directly involved in the whole Iraq effort.

The focus on Iran actually didn't really start until like 2006.

Then the reason I know that is another one of our class,

so the career training program, there are 53 of us.

We were basically given a one-year orientation to the CIA.

And we went to paramilitary camp together.

We did 12 weeks at Camp Perry, you know, doing land navigation, weapons, you know.

So you build up some good relationships and friendships over that.

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