The following is a conversation with Lee Smallin.

He's a theoretical physicist,

co-inventor of loop quantum gravity,

and a contributor of many interesting ideas

to cosmology, quantum field theory,

the foundations of quantum mechanics,

theoretical biology, and the philosophy of science.

He's the author of several books, including one,

that critiques the state of physics and strength theory

called the trouble with physics.

And his latest book, Einstein's on Finnish Revolution,

the search for what lies beyond the quantum.

He's an outspoken personality in the public debates

on the nature of our universe,

among the top minds in the theoretical physics community.

This community has its respective academics,

its naked emperors, its outcasts, and its revolutionaries,

its madmen, and its dreamers.

This is why it's an exciting world to explore

through long-form conversation.

I recommend you listen back to the episodes

of Leonard Suskind, Sean Carroll,

...