My guest today, Beatrice Finn, is a powerful force in the movement to abolish nuclear

weapons.

In 2017, at the tender age of 35, she accepted the Nobel Peace Prize after her organization,

the International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons, also known as ICANN, spearheaded the

effort that led 122 countries to adopt the treaty on the prohibition of nuclear weapons.

It follows the models of the bands on chemical weapons, biological weapons, land mines,

the cluster bombs ban, but somehow we forgot about nuclear weapons.

Welcome to People I Mostly Admire, with Steve Levitt.

With the Russian invasion of Ukraine, nuclear war has suddenly become front of mind for

many people.

These nuclear questions are particularly interesting to me because much of the early working

game theory and important branch of economics was motivated by the concept of nuclear deterrence.

I've always taken for granted the logic behind those arguments, but the more I've thought

about it and the more I've watched real world events unfold, the less confident I've become.

I'd love to start with some basic facts on nuclear weapons to make sure we're all on

the same page.

What countries currently have nuclear capabilities?

Right now we have nine countries with nuclear weapons.

The United States, Russia, China, UK, France, India, Pakistan, Israel, and North Korea.

It's really a minority.

Okay, so approaching this problem, thinking like an economist, it's surprising to me that

so few countries have nuclear capabilities.

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