meta_pixel
Tapesearch Logo
Log in
The John Batchelor Show

7/8: Three years later, the Pandemic breaks #PRC healthcare, confidence and recovery: 7/8: Chaos Under Heaven: Trump, Xi, and the Battle for the Twenty-First Century, by Josh Rogin.

The John Batchelor Show

John Batchelor

Society & Culture, Arts, News, Books

4.52.8K Ratings

🗓️ 15 January 2023

⏱️ 11 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Photo: No known restrictions on publication.
Wuhan University
@Batchelorshow


7/8: Three years later, the Pandemic breaks #PRC healthcare, confidence and recovery: 7/8: Chaos Under Heaven: Trump, Xi, and the Battle for the Twenty-First Century, by Josh Rogin.

:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08B364SKG/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i0

The explosive, behind-the-scenes story of Donald Trump’s high-stakes confrontation with Beijing, from an award-winning Washington Post columnist and peerless observer of the U.S.–China relationship

There was no calm before the storm. Donald Trump’s surprise electoral victory shattered the fragile understanding between Washington and Beijing, putting the most important relationship of the twenty-first century in the hands of a novice who had bitterly attacked China from the campaign trail. Almost as soon as he entered office, Trump brought to a boil the long-simmering rivalry between the two countries, while also striking up a “friendship” with Chinese president Xi Jinping — whose manipulations of his American counterpart would undermine the White House’s already disjointed response to the historic challenge of a rising China. All the while, Trump’s own officials fought to steer U.S. policy from within.

By the time the COVID-19 pandemic erupted in Wuhan, Trump’s love-hate relationship with Xi had sparked a trade war, while Xi’s aggression had pushed the world to the brink of a new Cold War. But their quarrel had also forced a long-overdue reckoning within the United States over China’s audacious foreign-influence operations, horrific human rights abuses, and creeping digital despotism. Ironically, this awakening was one of the biggest foreign-policy victories of Trump’s fractious term in office

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

This episode is brought to you by Slack. With Slack, you can bring all your people and

0:05.9

tools together in one place. It's your digital HQ where you can increase productivity,

0:11.1

enable flexibility and automate workflows. Plus, Slack is full of game-changing features

0:16.8

like huddles for quick check-ins or Slack Connect, which helps you connect with partners

0:21.0

inside and outside of your company. Slack, where the future works. Get started at

0:27.0

Slack.com slash DHQ.

0:35.0

I'm John Batcher with Josh Rogan of the Washington Post, the Global Opinions columnist,

0:39.2

most importantly, right now, the author of the new book Chaos Under Heaven, Trump, Xi

0:44.0

and the Battle for the 21st Century. This is a story of 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20 that

0:52.0

much establishes what we know and don't know about the pandemic, about the threat to

0:57.1

national security here and with our allies and the threat to planet Earth right now, what

1:02.6

we know and what we don't know. There are ironies aplenty here because Josh is telling

1:07.5

the story of the Trump policy towards China with China that was looking to, in some way,

1:13.4

resolve itself in January of 2020, the Phase 1 trade deal.

1:19.9

The primary is not neat and it can be one thing after another. On the 15th, that Phase

1:26.2

1 deal with handshakes all around is sealed in Washington and the Chinese negotiators

1:33.6

get on the plane to go home to Beijing. The day before, however, at the National Security

1:38.4

Council meeting, it was held at the National Security Council meeting at the policy coordination

1:49.0

committee level, that is the principles were not there, the coordinators were there. There

1:53.6

was a report of a strange new flu from China and one of the people attending that meeting

1:59.5

is Matthew Potendra, we've met him before. What did they know on January 14th about this

2:04.5

flu, Josh, because I mentioned that I had spoken of that flu on January 6th to my colleague

...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from John Batchelor, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of John Batchelor and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.

Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.