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Freakonomics Radio

645. Is the Air Traffic Control System Broken?

Freakonomics Radio

Freakonomics Radio + Stitcher

Documentary, Society & Culture

4.632K Ratings

🗓️ 5 September 2025

⏱️ 63 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Flying in the U.S. is still exceptionally safe, but the system relies on outdated tech and is under tremendous strain. Six experts tell us how it got this way and how it can (maybe) be fixed. (Part one of a two-part series.)

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

When you're sitting at the gate and you're getting ready to board a plane, do you have

0:09.0

that moment where you think I'm putting my life in someone else's hands?

0:13.0

I do. This is just a habit of mine because my oldest brother was an Air Force pilot,

0:19.0

and I've always been in awe because I have none of the technical, mechanical, or optic skills.

0:26.1

Reaction time, none. I have none of those abilities.

0:28.4

I'm with you. I've been around the industry for 30 years, and still, when I sit at the gate or whatever, I'm like, okay, I know the team.

0:36.1

I'm putting my life in their hands, and I'm trusting them, and that still goes through my head. It's not that I'm like, okay, I know the team. I'm putting my life in their hands and I'm

0:37.5

trusting them. And that still goes through my head. It's not that I'm nervous. It's just that

0:42.1

it's what we do. People think about the pilots. Some people see the control tower. They

0:47.2

think about us a little bit, but we're probably like not that high up in the thought process.

0:53.1

That is Kenneth Levin.

0:54.9

He lives in Northern California, and he recently retired after a 23-year career as an air traffic controller.

1:02.1

He also happens to be a Freakonomics radio listener.

1:04.6

And a few months ago, he sent us an email.

1:06.5

He got right to the point.

1:07.6

Stephen, he wrote, how about an episode about air traffic control?

1:12.2

My first thought was, yes, please. A few years ago, we did a three-part series about the airline

1:18.0

industry called Freakonomics Radio Takes to the Skies, but even in three episodes, we barely

1:22.9

touched on air traffic control. Like Levin says, it is just not that high up in the thought process.

1:29.2

I've since come to realize that that is by design. At any given moment, there are around 5,000

1:35.8

planes in the sky above the United States. The pilots of those planes are in contact with

1:41.6

a constellation of controllers who guide the planes through departure,

...

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