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Hello and welcome to Real Crime Profile.

I'm Jim Clemente, retired FBI profiler and former New York City prosecutor.

And with me today is Laura Richards, former New Scotland Yard and FBI trained.

And I also set up as the founder and director of Paladin the National Stalking Advocacy Service.

And Lisa Zambetti, casting director and LA.

And I cast the show Criminal Minds, where Jim is my colleague and I cast killers, victims, everything in between.

And I have a real interest in Real Crime and the real minds that solve those crimes.

Today we're going to be talking about making a murder again.

And we're going to drill down into two of the issues that have really been bothering us about this case.

One, Officer Colburn's call, calling in the plates of Theresa Holtbeck's car.

And Pam Sturms, call to get that car identified by the VIN number.

These are really troubling issues for us.

We'll get down to it right now.

Just so everybody knows what we're talking about, we're going to be discussing these calls.

We're going to be playing the real audio from those calls that were presented in the trial.

That's right.

So one of the things that was interesting and significant for me was just the Colburn call when he calls in the license plate number and is told by the dispatcher that yes, it's Theresa Holtbeck's car.

And then I wanted to sort of relisten to that whole piece.

And then I started to hear other things, another voice in the background.

And the reason why I wanted to revisit that was because I felt, A felt probably like lots of other people that he was calling out the plate license from having it in front of him.

Right. Like he actually saw it in front of him and that's why he was calling it in.

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