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The History of Literature

595 Machiavelli (with Gabriele Pedulla) | My Last Book with Sarah Ruden

The History of Literature

Jacke Wilson

History, Books, Arts

4.61.2K Ratings

🗓️ 11 March 2024

⏱️ 50 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

For centuries, Machiavelli has been viewed as everything from an insightful pragmatist to the mouthpiece of Satan. In this episode, Jacke talks to Italian scholar Gabriele Pedullà about his book On Niccolò Machiavelli: The Bonds of Politics, which offers a surprising new take on a 500-year-old literary and political giant. PLUS Vergil translator and biographer Sarah Ruden (Vergil: The Poet's Life) stops by to discuss her choice for the last book she will ever read. Help support the show at patreon.com/literature or historyofliterature.com/donate. The History of Literature Podcast is a member of Lit Hub Radio and the Podglomerate Network. Learn more at www.thepodglomerate.com/historyofliterature. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

The History of Literature Podcast is a member of the Podglamorate Network and LIT Hub Radio.

0:07.0

Hello, in a fallen world, what does it mean to describe people as they are, not as we wish them to be?

0:17.2

That question has bedeviled scholars of Nikola Machiavelli for 500 years.

0:22.2

Is he a refreshing realist whose advice is based on practicality and pragmatism?

0:28.0

Or is he a diabolical schemer? The Dark Priest of propaganda and manipulation and means being justified by ends.

0:38.9

We revisit the life works and reputation of Machiavellli with guest Gabrile Peduyah, today on, here we go. Let's get straight to it. We've got a Machiavellian scholar. Well, let me rephrase a scholar of Machiavellian scholar, well let me rephrase a scholar of Machiavelli who will tell us about the

1:07.9

framing that he adopted in his book on Nikolo Machivali, published by Columbia University Press in their core knowledge series.

1:18.0

And we'll hear from, let's see, who would be a good, my last booker for this one?

1:25.5

How about Sarah Rudin?

1:27.7

Keep things close to home, and by home I mean Italy, my beloved, second home.

1:33.6

She was our expert in Virgil.

1:36.7

We'll hear what she has to say about her choice for the last book she will ever read. But first, a couple of stories I wanted to share. I was home alone last weekend. My wife took my son to visit. Her mother and I had to work. So it was just me in the house and there's something clarifying about having

1:55.7

that experience when you spend most of your time living with others. Suddenly your choices

2:01.7

are 100% your own. What will you do with that time and that freedom?

2:10.0

If it's been a while, you're not sure exactly what to expect.

2:14.6

And it's not just what will you do, but who are you at this point in your life?

2:20.0

I know who I was when I was in Taiwan, aged 22, living alone.

2:26.4

As it turned out, I was a guy who most days bought dumplings to eat from the market below

2:32.1

my apartment and then who who hold himself away with a big pile of books reading on my mattress on the floor. That was what I chose for myself. This time, decades later, I had a similar

2:49.6

choice for a little while, a little window of choice choice and I ended up eating some leftovers and

2:55.4

watching a bunch of movies. First I wrapped up the last 20 minutes of Star Trek 2, The Wrath of Khan, which I started a few weeks ago for some reason.

3:06.7

I remembered that movie from the theater as being almost impossible to watch.

...

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