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I'm going to have a slightly more defensive position in the church in that regard.

Oh, wait, let me introduce you. James Orrd has joined us. Some of you will have heard James on his interview with Gina Colvin on a thoughtful faith. James, why don't you just introduce yourself to our audience really quick?

Well, my name is James Orrd. I am an attorney. I do family law work, but I've also worked in politics and PR and policy and that sort of thing.

And I also worked in Hollywood for 10 years.

And I practice family law in Salt Lake City. And I come, I'm married, I'm gay. My husband and his ex-wife are still best friends. We co-parent for wonderful children.

And we have the opportunity and that are lucky. We're very lucky in that she met her husband at the Strait Support of Spouses Network. So his ex-wife is lesbian.

And so we have a unique situation and a unique family because we are actively together. We co-parent and we're close friends. We vacation together.

So we have a little bit different. We're affected by these policies, but we also have a different take on co-parenting and cooperative parenting.

And our kids are being raised multi-denominational. My husband and I attend the Episcopal Cathedral. And then their mother attends her LDS ward.

And so our kids have been raised in both places. And that's relatively new. The kids have only been going to the Episcopal Church for about three years now.

We've been involved with the gay rights movement here in Salt Lake and also in California. Going back even before Prop 8, I went to law school at Pergamy Young University.

And my husband and I just recently withdraw our membership from the LDS Church because we were asked to buy our state president over the period of the last six months.

Right. Okay. We'll walk about to be defensive of the church.

I am. I am. I'm going to put some church a little bit. And the reason why I say that is because this.

So the church, you know, I was in a CLE with Bill Atkin, who's the Church's International Council.

And he, something that he said that really kind of stood out to me and that's this. The church is, it's not, it doesn't just wear one hat.

It is a large multinational conglomerate that has tons of different LLCs and just for its ecclesiastical structures.

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