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Let's move into this because I hinted before I want to use the word public shaming

a minute ago you talked about coding or coded language and things like that. When you interviewed me,

there was a section where you simply say, but of course you would admit that Joseph Smith

was deceptive or something there. As I listen to podcasts of yours, I don't listen to every single

one of them or something like that. Terms like racist or sexist or fraudulent deceptive. These

things seem to be pretty freely said by you or your guests without you're trying to say,

slow down here. That's a loaded term. I just want to have a discussion with you about terms like

that. Like using, it's got a fraudulent foundation and things like that. When you know that there's

nuance there and yet you don't take the time to add the nuance. Where is the benefit of the doubt

of somebody as racist that they also, there's compassion that could be had for that person.

I hope I've never argued against compassion for the brother and Joseph Smith,

bringing me on the GAs. I feel like overall I've tried to really communicate empathy for the

difficulty of their position. But let's just take the word fraud because let's just start by

getting on the same page. So I'll just, this is not going to be revelatory. I'll just say it

really plainly. For me, as I look at the Book of Abraham and the Papyra example or the Book of

Mormon and the what I would see as co-opting biblical text and teachings and stories from Joseph

surrounding culture, for me there's number A, there's no chance that there's any ancient origins

...